Section 1: A: I think it is really neat. I agree. I
noticed you have Al Pindar, who is just a
remarkable journalist. The Morris family will
probably be there. Ed Sidey's family is four
generations involved. Kenny and Mary Louise
Robinson. As I was telling Jamie, a lot of
the fun has gone out newspaper. It is kind of
a hard-scrabble business now. But those
people have some remarkable stories. Iowa is
very fortunate to have such a freedom of
information. It is such a strong, strong one.
And it is a constant fight for people in
small towns, or big towns, to keep that
going.
Q: I am going to try to ask the majority of
the questions, but other people are free to
pipe up. Some of the stuff you may have
already told me, but you haven't told the
class. First of all, can you tell us a little
bit about your educational background and
where you grew up?
A: I was born in Dallas, Texas and grew up
Atlantic [Iowa] and Des Moines and Dallas. My
mother's heart never left the South. I
graduated from Atlantic High School and I had
a very fine English teacher, journalism
teacher. Every time I see her, I want to yell
at her for getting me into this business. But
I wanted to be in engineering. I came from a
family that said, "It doesn't make any
difference if you fail. At least you tried."
So, I went off to Iowa State in civil
engineering. There were two women in six
hundred kids. I certainly was not a top
student after a year and a half. The other
woman did graduate with honors. So I have
always had a very, very deep interest in
building construction, which is a little odd.
But, I married while still in school at Iowa
State and my former husband was in the Marine
Corps and then came back and went to graduate
school. I finished up and the only thing left
was science and humanities. I was interested
in English. I grew up in a family that took
four daily newspapers. And sometimes...and
then, my mother would have the New York Times
sent in. So we grew up as readers which I
think is very important. There were lots of
different books in our house. We were the
only family in town, my sister and I discuss
this, that were allowed to take out any
number of books from the library a week that
we wanted to. I think one time we returned
thirty-two, which meant, for little kids,
hauling them up the steps. So I grew up like
that.
Then I went off and then I married and my
husband got his doctorate and we moved to a
small town. He didn't want to teach. And I
went over the end of the earth. Let me tell
you, anything below Highway 34 in those days,
I thought was absolutely the end of the
earth. And, very unfamiliar with small towns.
But I happened to adore it. I loved it. My
marriage dissolved, so I had inherited some
money from my father, and you will hear this
story, I thought, "My God. I can run a better
paper than the guy doing it." It was up for
sale. So, I talked to the banker who never
bothered to ask if I had any credentials in
journalism. He just gave me the loan. I
thought, "Nice guy." So, anyway, my father
said, "If you want to do it, go ahead." So, I
signed my inheritance, so to speak, into
this. I had only been in the office twice,
but they also irritated me because they did
not put an ad in twice. Two weeks in a row
they missed the ad. You don't know how
irritating that is until you are the mother
of a band student. I was well aware of where
I was headed.
I actually learned to develop film under the
red light in the darkroom. My first papers
were pretty pathetic. One gal stayed with me.
If you are from rural areas, you will
understand this. I thought, I will be
professional so I am going to call these
people, these advertisers, saying, "May I
come see you?" So, she made appointments and
she dialed one in Clarinda. This woman said,
"Alice Chalmers." She said, "Oh, I am sorry,
Mrs. Chalmers. I have the wrong number." And
hung up. See, only rural people understand
that one. So, it was a learning experience.
But the great thing about newspapers is, I
had great mentors. Al Pindar. Kenny Robinson
when he wasn't yelling at me. I am sure Dick
Knolls may be somewhere on your list. He
certainly wasn't yelling at me. And so we
learned a lot from each other. It was
terrific because I would ask them a question
and they would help with it. And I learned a
lot. And I also had a...I had a father. I
came from a family of attorneys who never
represented anybody in the family. So, I had
a grounding in the law. And my dad said, "If
you want to do it, give it a try." So, I was
able to. So, I have learned on the spot. I
don't bow to any god of journalism, and so,
therefore, I do my own thing. So, I am not
sure about how...the AP [Associated Press]
style is, "Is that the way we are supposed to
do it? OK." But sometimes, I will just do
what I feel. I try to write in a
conversational story. Actually, I do what I
damn well please as long as people keep
subscribing. And the problem now is, to be
serious, is more people are dying than are
being born, so I am losing subscribers.
But, that is kind of my background. And it is
interesting, because my brother and my sister
have very different careers and we each enjoy
what we do. I love this town. It is the
craziest town in the world. They are
opinionated, strong minded people. We could
never have a public hanging because we
couldn't agree on whom to lynch. It is just
terrible. So, it makes it interesting. Giles
Fowler, who is a professor at Iowa State,
came down and spent the night with us and
went to a city council meeting. It reminded
him a lot of New England. People in the
audience will speak up and start arguing with
the mayor or the city council. So, it is
interesting. If you are bored and live in a
small town, that is very sad. But you also
have to do things back to pay for life for
volunteering. So, I enjoy it.
I have had chances to sell and then I just
can't bring myself, because I don't know what
I would do. I would love to teach community
journalism because I would like to teach the
way it should be taught. But I think, if you
want a career that really makes a difference,
forget broadcast, forget TV, forget public
relations, go into community journalism
because you could make a difference there.
You can help pass the bond issue. You can
help with the fund drive for the young man
that was severely injured. You can teach
people that the school board should have open
proceedings and not try to hide things. You
can learn to defend the small. And you take
on the mighty. The bank that we had never
printed a statement of condition. I was the
only paper in the state whose hometown bank
did not put a statement of condition in. But
I had a discussion with him on someone that
the school expelled when he claimed they
committed a crime and I didn't think so. And
so, he just pulled any advertising from me.
But, fortunately, I could get along.
Nowadays, I don't know if I could be as
patriotic about my feelings. But, anyway,
that is where it is at.
But I wanted to, before I was fifty, to build
a bridge. And go skinny dipping. And I never
did either. But, someday, I am going to learn
how to build a bridge. I would like to go
back to school and learn that. But I probably
won't ever do that.
Q: Why not?
Section 1: A: I think it is really neat. I agree. I
noticed you have Al Pindar, who is just a
remarkable journalist. The Morris family will
probably be there. Ed Sidey's family is four
generations involved. Kenny and Mary Louise
Robinson. As I was telling Jamie, a lot of
the fun has gone out newspaper. It is kind of
a hard-scrabble business now. But those
people have some remarkable stories. Iowa is
very fortunate to have such a freedom of
information. It is such a strong, strong one.
And it is a constant fight for people in
small towns, or big towns, to keep that
going.
Q: I am going to try to ask the majority of
the questions, but other people are free to
pipe up. Some of the stuff you may have
already told me, but you haven't told the
class. First of all, can you tell us a little
bit about your educational background and
where you grew up?
A: I was born in Dallas, Texas and grew up
Atlantic [Iowa] and Des Moines and Dallas. My
mother's heart never left the South. I
graduated from Atlantic High School and I had
a very fine English teacher, journalism
teacher. Every time I see her, I want to yell
at her for getting me into this business. But
I wanted to be in engineering. I came from a
family that said, "It doesn't make any
difference if you fail. At least you tried."
So, I went off to Iowa State in civil
engineering. There were two women in six
hundred kids. I certainly was not a top
student after a year and a half. The other
woman did graduate with honors. So I have
always had a very, very deep interest in
building construction, which is a little odd.
But, I married while still in school at Iowa
State and my former husband was in the Marine
Corps and then came back and went to graduate
school. I finished up and the only thing left
was science and humanities. I was interested
in English. I grew up in a family that took
four daily newspapers. And sometimes...and
then, my mother would have the New York Times
sent in. So we grew up as readers which I
think is very important. There were lots of
different books in our house. We were the
only family in town, my sister and I discuss
this, that were allowed to take out any
number of books from the library a week that
we wanted to. I think one time we returned
thirty-two, which meant, for little kids,
hauling them up the steps. So I grew up like
that.
Then I went off and then I married and my
husband got his doctorate and we moved to a
small town. He didn't want to teach. And I
went over the end of the earth. Let me tell
you, anything below Highway 34 in those days,
I thought was absolutely the end of the
earth. And, very unfamiliar with small towns.
But I happened to adore it. I loved it. My
marriage dissolved, so I had inherited some
money from my father, and you will hear this
story, I thought, "My God. I can run a better
paper than the guy doing it." It was up for
sale. So, I talked to the banker who never
bothered to ask if I had any credentials in
journalism. He just gave me the loan. I
thought, "Nice guy." So, anyway, my father
said, "If you want to do it, go ahead." So, I
signed my inheritance, so to speak, into
this. I had only been in the office twice,
but they also irritated me because they did
not put an ad in twice. Two weeks in a row
they missed the ad. You don't know how
irritating that is until you are the mother
of a band student. I was well aware of where
I was headed.
I actually learned to develop film under the
red light in the darkroom. My first papers
were pretty pathetic. One gal stayed with me.
If you are from rural areas, you will
understand this. I thought, I will be
professional so I am going to call these
people, these advertisers, saying, "May I
come see you?" So, she made appointments and
she dialed one in Clarinda. This woman said,
"Alice Chalmers." She said, "Oh, I am sorry,
Mrs. Chalmers. I have the wrong number." And
hung up. See, only rural people understand
that one. So, it was a learning experience.
But the great thing about newspapers is, I
had great mentors. Al Pindar. Kenny Robinson
when he wasn't yelling at me. I am sure Dick
Knolls may be somewhere on your list. He
certainly wasn't yelling at me. And so we
learned a lot from each other. It was
terrific because I would ask them a question
and they would help with it. And I learned a
lot. And I also had a...I had a father. I
came from a family of attorneys who never
represented anybody in the family. So, I had
a grounding in the law. And my dad said, "If
you want to do it, give it a try." So, I was
able to. So, I have learned on the spot. I
don't bow to any god of journalism, and so,
therefore, I do my own thing. So, I am not
sure about how...the AP [Associated Press]
style is, "Is that the way we are supposed to
do it? OK." But sometimes, I will just do
what I feel. I try to write in a
conversational story. Actually, I do what I
damn well please as long as people keep
subscribing. And the problem now is, to be
serious, is more people are dying than are
being born, so I am losing subscribers.
But, that is kind of my background. And it is
interesting, because my brother and my sister
have very different careers and we each enjoy
what we do. I love this town. It is the
craziest town in the world. They are
opinionated, strong minded people. We could
never have a public hanging because we
couldn't agree on whom to lynch. It is just
terrible. So, it makes it interesting. Giles
Fowler, who is a professor at Iowa State,
came down and spent the night with us and
went to a city council meeting. It reminded
him a lot of New England. People in the
audience will speak up and start arguing with
the mayor or the city council. So, it is
interesting. If you are bored and live in a
small town, that is very sad. But you also
have to do things back to pay for life for
volunteering. So, I enjoy it.
I have had chances to sell and then I just
can't bring myself, because I don't know what
I would do. I would love to teach community
journalism because I would like to teach the
way it should be taught. But I think, if you
want a career that really makes a difference,
forget broadcast, forget TV, forget public
relations, go into community journalism
because you could make a difference there.
You can help pass the bond issue. You can
help with the fund drive for the young man
that was severely injured. You can teach
people that the school board should have open
proceedings and not try to hide things. You
can learn to defend the small. And you take
on the mighty. The bank that we had never
printed a statement of condition. I was the
only paper in the state whose hometown bank
did not put a statement of condition in. But
I had a discussion with him on someone that
the school expelled when he claimed they
committed a crime and I didn't think so. And
so, he just pulled any advertising from me.
But, fortunately, I could get along.
Nowadays, I don't know if I could be as
patriotic about my feelings. But, anyway,
that is where it is at.
But I wanted to, before I was fifty, to build
a bridge. And go skinny dipping. And I never
did either. But, someday, I am going to learn
how to build a bridge. I would like to go
back to school and learn that. But I probably
won't ever do that.
Q: Why not?
A: Because I am too inured of where I am and,
besides, I don't think I could study. --
Section 2: Q: What advice were you given when you first
got into the newspaper business from others
in the field, from your family?
A: Well, I think it probably came from my
father and my mother. They said, "You may be
smarter. You may be more intelligent. You may
be better looking. You may be wealthier. But
you are no better than everybody." And I
think that has been something through all our
lives. So, I have learned that you can never
be condescending when you talk to somebody in
the professional journalism beat. There is no
reason. Whether it is the man on the street.
We mailed all our papers. We hand-delivered
one to the local drunk who would drive by on
the corner. We would run out because we were
afraid he would fall on the sidewalk and sue
us. But, I mean, he was still a valued
customer. And I think that is it. And I think
the payback is that a lot of people come up
to me and ask me to do things, or try to help
them, which I do. And I think that is the
best. And I think all community journalists
really feel at heart that they are trying to
do the best they can.
Q: Tell us a little bit about the working
conditions when you first started compared to
now. What you pay your employees.
A: I pay over the minimum wage. Not much, but
I do. But they have freedom to come and go
evidently, which I didn't quite understand.
Then, I do give bonuses. Pretty handsome
bonuses at the end of the year if it looks
like a good year. The only problem with that
is they expect it every year, so you better
come up with the money. But, I have a old
building, it is pre-1900, that we have had to
side. I am sure people who are architectural
purists would not like it resided. So we have
that. But the biggest thing is the reduction.
We would have needed, probably, when we
started, with the darkroom, a room twice this
size. With computers, the equipment has
become so much smaller. With the scanners,
you can do away with the darkroom. And I know
something lives there anyway' I can hear it
breathe when I am in there. But I think that
is the biggest...and the small newspapers, I
happened to be telling Jamie, it was the
December of '87, about the 25th of December -
I usually work on Christmas Day because it is
quiet there - I thought, "Oh, I have got to
do something with the money." So, I
contracted to buy a computer system. They
were just coming in. Macs [Macintosh
computers] I had never heard of them, but
they were coming into their own. Well, we got
it delivered January 2nd. I mean, I paid for
it. And January 3rd, our other typesetting
equipment blew. So, we learned on the go. And
ever since then, it is like everything else
in life, we never have been trained. I would
love to learn how to do ?? express out of the
book, but have just never had time to do it.
So, I think that's the biggest, probably the
biggest changes. The people who are coming
out now are so computer literate. And I
have...one of my high school coaches is a
computer guru and has gotten our school very
involved in computers, so he does my program
for me. I just call the school and say,
"Help." They give him the message. He comes
down on his break and fixes my computers.
Except he had his hip operated on Monday, so
we have to take the computers to him. But I
think that is the probably the biggest.
Q: What are your hours and what are your
employees' hours?
A: My hours are such that neither of my
daughters want the paper. I work eight to
five and one year I worked eighty-eight days
straight. At least a minimum of six hours.
Now, I have someone who is really terrific.
If you only want an eight to five job, then
forget journalism. You will never make it.
You have to be a dedicated person. But I work
eight to five. I have the ability to take
off. And then, I will work either Saturday or
Sunday, one of the days, about six hours. But
you can also get a lot done when there is
nobody around. That is what makes it so nice.
You don't have anybody bothering you. And my
employees work eight to five and, if there is
an emergency, they will stay. I have had
sometimes when they have had to and they have
been terrific about it. They are very
understanding.
New employees have to learn that. You have to
kind of float with your hours. You can't take
a lunch break if there is a fire in town and
you have to take a picture. Or if the city
council has done something, you have got to
get out and find out what the story is.
But we have a rule: we don't care when you
die, but don't let your funeral be on Monday
or Tuesday. And unfortunately, that just
makes life hell. And it is really tough
because you have all these things you can't
do. And we just hate holidays that fall on
Monday because I have to work and we still
have to get the paper out. I don't like a
delayed paper. It makes it too tough. --
Section 3: Q: You have mentioned before that you get
along really good with your neighboring
newspapers. What is the competition like
between neighboring newspapers?
A: Pretty tough. Pretty tough. At one time, I
had five "shoppers" in my area. But they have
kind of...I think there is one that comes.
Well, two now, but they are not really
competitive that much.
Q: How do you deal with that?
A: You cannot. I believe you have to be very
honorable, so I don't do anything. You just
say you have a product to sell. These
"shoppers" don't print your child's
engagement picture, if you want details. And
the business people are getting very savvy.
Our problem is sometimes from radio, but I
think we are still working around that. We
have some very good radio stations in our
market.
Q: How are you working around that? Would you
talk a little bit about competition and how
it has changed over the years?
A: I think in locally owned papers, there
isn't the cutthroat competition that you get
in your chains. You work for Lee Enterprises
or you work for Smith newspapers, you have
goals you have to hit every year. Local
newspaper owners are pretty well aware of
what the economic situation there. There is
nobody that is sitting in Kentucky telling
you, "We know you should sell ten more
percent." And, actually, it is amazing, but
as far as competition, we share ads. We will
do an ad and we will share an ad. We will
just call and they will say, "Yes, you can
run it. Get it from the Red Oak Express." And
they will say, "Yes, you can run it. Get it
from the Villisca Review." And the same thing
with photos because people can't be
everywhere. I do sports photos and then
sometimes we will share them. I make sure of
what ones they stay away from because I want
my first choice, but other than that, it is
not a problem. And so, yes, it is
competitive. But, you know, we are kind of
the "Auntie Mame" of newspapers. And so, we
can do our thing and, I think, by that way,
we got our own niche because we don't follow
the straight and narrow.
I will tell you the two times I have gotten
in trouble. One time, it was the week before
President Clinton's first election. It was
Tuesday night and I was bored and I didn't
know what to write about, so I bannered the
top of the paper that, if Clinton was
elected, I would not raise my subscription
rates. I lost one more than I gained in
subscribers. And one minister's wife put it
in Christian terms like I was a bad
Christian. But that got a lot of publicity.
That's how you do things. But I had no idea
what that would do. And that was the type of
thing. People remembered that, so we could
sell ads that week because people would
remember these types of things.
We had a "Whine, Women and Song" and that is
why we had a contest where whoever sent in
the most songs that had women's names in them
would win. We give away a hundred dollars, so
we make it worth it. Other newspapers will
pick it up. Other radio stations. They picked
up the Clinton one but good in Omaha. Big
Eddy or Fat Eddy or somebody in Omaha
subscribed to our paper for six months, which
is a subscription I, obviously, never would
have gotten otherwise. So, that is kind of
the way it is.
It is tough. We have businesses closing and
it's much more of a problem than when you
talk competitors. --
Section 4: Q: A couple of laundry items. Your
circulation? Size of the city? Size of the
county?
A: My circulation is thirteen fifty. That is
1350. The size of my community is 1302. And I
believe Red Oak [Iowa] has 10,000 people, I
think. No, that can't be right. It is 8,000.
Q: How large is your staff?
A: The problem is, I am trying to hire people
full time, but they don't seem to want to
work in this day and age. I have one full
time, one three day a week, and one two day a
week, and another three day a week. I would
love to have full time people, but for some
reason, they don't want to work for full
time. And, if they did, they might go to a
factory. So, it is hard. The continuity - you
really need full time people. That is why I
have got to find another full time person.
Q: Are they all editorials (??)?
A: No. We do everything. We have one that is
a pretty good janitor. You fill in and that
is the nice thing about small papers. And
that is what you would get at Red Oak. I
handle the bookkeeping, obviously, and I do
the majority of the writing and editing and
that type of thing. But they do everything
else. You get to do everything. You take
pictures. You develop pictures. Do ads. We
have a gal that is terrific on designing the
ads and selling them. That is all she wants
to do, but I am around selling more than just
designing. You all have to get together and
learn how to do it. The scanning photos,
which is a great thing now, scanning drawings
and clip art, there is only one that can do
that besides myself. The others don't seem
interested.
Q: Are they all women?
A: You bet. I am serious in a way. I look for
women, if you want to know. I have three
requirements. They have to have a sense of
humor. They have to have the ability to keep
their mouth closed because people say things
that you cannot believe and they want me as a
confidant. And they have to be willing to
work. I did have a man, but he is gone.
[laughs]
Q: This is what we want to know.
Let's hear it.
A: He had worked in a newspaper and had
retired and I think he felt that he knew more
about journalism, and he did. But he didn't
know about working with people. And what
would sell. So that was it. And my biggest
problem is that I believe in people - saying,
"Well, I was sick that day so I couldn't
work." But when they are sick that day and
seen in a town twelve miles away shopping, I
don't take to it kindly. Very unkindly. And I
have had young men write sports for me. So,
that's no problem. As I was telling Jamie, we
are a town that is run by women basically,
so, there is not a problem with sexual
stereotyping. But at one time, ten years ago,
the mayor was a woman, the city clerk was a
woman, the Presbyterian minister was a woman,
the pharmacist was a woman, and the top
insurance agent in our community was a woman.
It is town where, this is a very strange
thing and I was surprised when I started
reading it, divorce was very common starting
in the 1900s. It is really kind of amazing. I
always call Red Oak the grande dame and
Stanton, the other community, is the proper
cousin. We are the relative you never talk
about and keep in the attic because people
just feel that way about our community. Which
you can play up and use to sell.
Q: How?
A: OK, show and tell folks. I had formed one
marching group, but I got bored and we are
going to resurrect them. This is the
Southwest Iowa All-Girl Marching Drill Team.
Now, I don't know how many of you are from
Iowa. But it was "twelve little pinkies in a
row." "We'll be bacon before we're done. We
are looking for the great big boar" is what
it was. But I wonder how many of you Iowans
will recognize the person in front of there
who agreed to be our poster boy. That is the
governor of Iowa. So, he just loved us. Those
are hats that are pig hats and you put a
balloon in. Well, we have gotten publicity
all over the place. --
Section 5: A: ..then, how many have you heard of the axe
murders in Villisca? Some of you have,
haven't you?
Q: I have shared a little bit with the class.
A: 1912, eight people were killed with an axe
in June. The house was twenty feet away from
another house and no one heard anything.
These were all killed. It is always, "Who did
it?" It was controversial. I brought you some
stories to share. It is still controversial.
Even seventy-five years later, in 1987, we
were approached by...well, Der Spiegel does
a feature about every eight years. Then, we
got a call from the Star or something and
they wanted to do something. So, the mayor
and I and the city clerk decided we had
better do something. So, we started an
observance of the Villisca axe murder. When
you get into the fact that eight people are
hacked to death, no one heard anything, they
didn't move in their beds particularly. It
ruined the career of a man, F. F. Jones, who
was a state senator and on his way to
becoming the governor of Iowa, it ruined him
because they thought he did it. There was a
perverted little evangelist wandering around
who was a convicted peeping Tom, went to
South Dakota, wrote back to Omaha in an ad
and wanted a women to be his typist, and she
wrote and said, and he wrote back and said,
"Fine. But, you have to take the test in the
nude." Which isn't really normal in 1912, so
he was hospitalized. All these things. There
were people they tried to railroad. It was
divisive and that is why people think our
town is a little strange. In '87, it was
still divisive. There is a fellow called
Chuck Oppenberger (??) that works for the Des
Moines Register and he backed us and he
helped support us when we did this. I had to
print letters in the paper taking me to task
for doing this. They weren't kind. There was
an anonymous letter in the Des Moines
Register, I found out it was anonymous when I
tried call, that took me to task. It showed
up in the Star and the only correct thing in
it was the spelling of my name. People said,
"Let it go." I said, "It is history. You
can't change it. It happened. We have to
recognize it." And I think the thing the
community needs a gold medal for is they
never found someone to railroad. There were
always good-thinking people who said, "Say,
we can't just write someone off." We still
have the axe. I was going to bring the axe
tonight, but I didn't really want to. One of
my friends has it.
So, here is the story. This tells the story.
It made the New York Times. The Chicago paper
sent out people. It was the largest unsolved
murder in Iowa and the Midwest, I think. When
Algona had a terrible rampage about eight
years ago and a man killed a whole family. I
remember that. But Time Magazine said,
"Unlike Villisca, which never came to terms
with it." Well, I was cross and Ed Sidey's
brother worked for the Time Magazine, but
unfortunately, he had retired by then.
So, anyway, now what are we going to do?
Mary Brooke and I decided we had to do
something to make this palatable. Because
this is something that is fascinating when
you find out about it. There was a woman that
supposedly saw someone leave the house, but
she was entertaining a man, not her husband,
in a ditch nearby, so they couldn't use her
name. And I can't say too much about it,
because her daughter and his daughter-in-law
are still alive. The town was fighting over
lighting, so people were cutting the wires
and the lights went out and this was night
when there were no lights. So, what do you
do? A friend of our came up with idea. We
adopted a pig and we called it Willard, with
the premise, and we wrote Willard Scott and
said, "If you don't show our t-shirt on TV,
we will butcher the hog." So, here are our
t-shirts. Then we had one little pig, which
got to be tame. I took it around and I took
it to the school where it could get some
information on the education system. I took
it to the R. G. Dickinson's stock market in
Red Oak and he kind of leaned in the chair
and the guy took...this is a picture, every
week, you do. He went over to the medical
clinic and he got his blood pressure tested.
We brought him up to Des Moines to one of the
radio stations. He oinks, he was tame. He
oinked. And he went out to Camp Dodge and was
interviewed by the general. People went along
with it. It was great. It was just stupid
little things that we got. So, here we had,
"Say, Willard." Of course, Willard Scott did
show this on TV. What I didn't know was that
people were going around having buttons and
selling them under the counter saying, "Serve
Willard." But, Willard and the mayor and I
went to the county fair in Red Oak as a pen
of three and we got a red ribbon. We were a
little hurt about that.
But, these are the type of things you do. And
we can do it. I am not sure the Orange County
Register can do it unless you have one person
that is a flake there. But, you know, we are
all too pompous in this world. If you give
these people a little fun, we really had some
good times.
This marching group, we were asked to go to
the state fair, but we decided we couldn't
make the whole route. But it was a great
group. The Presbyterian minister was our
head, here, and she finally said to me, I
heard her mumble, "It is just like church.
Nobody is listening to me." All these women
talking. But we were pretty outstanding.
These are the things we have done. And, each
year, for Heritage Days, we have had
our...this is our t-shirt from '93. Do you
recognize American Gothic? And then, when
RAGBRAI [the cross-Iowa bicycle tour] came
by, Chuck said this was a really good thing.
This etching was done by the Methodist
minister. That brings people. When they see
people come into town. We have a "hysterical
walk," not a history walk, but a "hysterical
walk," because it tells some of the tales.
And these towns are just full of these tales.
They are really great. They pertain to
history. We had people...we had military
history. Very, very famous. Have any of you
had any World War II history? At Kasserine
Pass, we had seven people, seven men, that
were captured and all seven returned from
prisoner of war camps, which is unusual. Our
men participated in the Mexican border war.
They participated in...do you know what the
Cow War is? Have any of you ever heard of the
Cow War in Iowa? Well, the farmers up north
in Iowa, by Fort Dodge, would not let their
cows be vaccinated. So, the National Guard
had to go up there to do this. They thought
it was something evil. So, we had this.
We are also the sight of the only Pulitzer
Prizing-winning photo in Iowa. Does anybody
know that? The Omaha World-Herald did a
wonderful, wonderful, about six or eight page
story on it, but I had dealt with the guy so
I got out my information and printed it a
little before them. Have any of you ever
recognized that? There are no faces. That was
what was so unusual. Bob Moore, this is
daughter and this is his wife and this is a
nephew. This was a 1943 Pulitzer Prize photo.
I have the article here that goes with it. It
was a homecoming [from World War II, and
because of no faces, was considered the
"everyman's homecoming."] What it is, the
gentleman that took it, I think it was from
the Omaha Bee, this was not his choice of
shots. The first shot, the camera
malfunctioned, so he got this. What is
amazing if you study your Pulitzer Prize
photos, I don't know if you have any
photography, it repeats every twenty years.
Well, I think it was a little more than
twenty years later, it was the Vietnam
veterans coming home from the war and the
children running across the tarmac, jumping.
So, that is just right on. Now, we hope we
don't have something like this in Iraq or
something.
I am going to make this into postcards
because I own it. The rights. Actually, it is
public domain, I am sure. But this is
something. It is just a simple thing. And our
depot had to be torn down because the
termites got to it. We tried to save it. But,
I will tell you, those old termites were
dedicated males. They just chopped through
that thing fast. Is there anything else?
And, by the way, I am happily married to a
wonderful man who puts up with me.
Q: You mentioned a lot of the fun about
journalism in a lot of these stories. Can you
tell us about one or two stories that really
changed the course of history in your town?
Or really changed something? What is a
memorable story for you? A serious story?
A: I think our dealing with these axe
murders. There is a documentary that, I
think, will be finished this next year called
"Villisca." It is a sociological look at the
town and how it affected people. That is
probably the most dramatic. I had friends
that would come in and just dress me down
royally. But, I said, "You can't hide it. It
happened." We had other people that said,
"So-and-so did it." I don't know if we
changed history.
I think one thing we probably did, our school
board about twelve years ago, and if you look
from a small town, you understand how
important schools are and their economic
situation is pretty perilous, and they have
become a very strong town because they were
very wise in how they spent money. They
invested in computers. Our kids get computers
in kindergarten and they start working on
them. I can't say...maybe that is true in all
the schools, but at one time, it was not. So,
they are computer literate very young.
I guess the other thing my family told me,
"You can think globally, but act locally."
You have to deal with things in your town. We
went for bond issues for a new school and
that passed. There really...it is difficult
to save anything. We don't really have any
ground-breaking things that happen. But it is
day-to-day life. You have no anonymity in a
small town, so your life had better be fairly
above board if you are a journalist because
otherwise they won't trust you. And I think
that is good for a lot of things. --
Section 6: A: ...if you want one moment that would define
community journalism, it is not any big
moment. It was a hot August day about eight
years ago. It was one of those warm mornings.
You have the door open in the small office
and you know it is going to be hot, but it is
just kind of pleasant to have it. And we were
kind of semi-dozing thinking about what we
would do about next week's news. And the
phone rang. It was Michael. He said, "Mrs.
Gage." I said, "Yes." "This is Michael." I
said, "Yeah." He said, "We dug a really big
hole. Would you come to take a picture? I
just know you want to see it." I thought,
"Oh, God." I said, "Well, thank you, Michael.
I will see if I am busy." But then I got to
thinking. "Why not?" I went up and I got six
little muddy boys who had dug a big hole in
this backyard and whose mother did not know
they had dug a hole there around us with
their shovels. They were just as happy...they
were just smiling. To me, that was important
because that is not going to be any AFL-CIO
fight someplace. It is small town journalism.
And when you look in your papers, there are
things that are just about as stupid. I try
to avoid taking the tomato that looks like
President Clinton picture or the biggest
sweet potato. But that defines what small
town journalism is because you are dealing
with people and that's what you can't forget.
Q: What did the parents say when
they found the hole?
A: Roxanne, this friend of mine, just
laughed. I knew she wouldn't mind. It is
still there. She told the kids they had
to...but they never did anything. They were
always doing things like that. They became
the Third Avenue Gang. Eight little boys.
They are getting now old, but they used to be
in all the parades and everything.
Q: Along opposite lines, was there ever a
time when you wanted to cover something, but
you didn't because it was a small town?
A: No. Never. I grew up in a community where
my family was talked about because I found
out later, we were a little strange. But, no,
I had never had to back down and I don't
think I would.
Q: Why not?
A: I don't think it is morally right. And I
told Jamie that I had told my daughters that
if they did anything wrong, their names would
go on the front page if they were charged. I
also did the same thing my father did. I
contacted the local police, the county
sheriff's department, and the highway patrol,
and said, "If you ever see my kids doing
anything, you call me." Because I said to my
daughters, "Unfortunately, you have to be
purer than Caesar's wife." I think you have
to do that. You cannot hide. I had a young
man that worked for me. Did a terrific job.
Won an award when he was just right out of
high school. Anyway, the next year, he was
arrested for vandalism. I called his family
and said, "I have to use it. I am going to
use the story."
I don't think I have ever backed off. Right
now, the County Assessor...there have been
re-appraisals and everybody is after me, but
I printed what she said. She said, "It was
fairly done.." and everything else.
Q: [question inaudible]
A: No, but I know the term "only," the one
word "only," can change it. If you ever put
that in a story, that can change it big time.
I try not to. I covered the murder of a young
man northeast of Villisca. His family was
absolutely raging at me because they felt he
was unfairly killed. Well, anybody is
unfairly killed. But, they had a different
perspective on his life than I had because I
had done some checking. I was very open. They
didn't feel I was sympathetic enough, but I
guess they have made their peace with me
because they have brought me some things for
the paper. But, no, I don't think so. I just
don't think I have.
Q: [question inaudible]
A: Yes, I do. I will tell you what. If you
are going to be a journalist, you have to
have faith in yourself. And I think you
sometimes have to have faith in God that you
are doing the right thing. But I think, yes I
do. I am a little nervous when I put things
in that I know are going to upset people. But
I would hope nobody would think I was
terribly unfair. One of the things, "You take
pictures of so-and-so's children all the
time." Well, so-and-so's children are
involved in things. If your children aren't
involved...that type of thing. But I have
gotten anonymous letters over the years. They
are not always wise. One guy sent me one and
the postman who picked it up knew it was
addressed to me and he knew this fellow, so
he had me open it while he was standing there
to see what kind of a letter it was. Well, it
wasn't terribly dangerous. Yes, I have been
threatened, but I am not too worried. But
then the guy wrote my husband about a class
reunion two years later using the same
typewriter. I thought, "Duh." I think if I
went to sell the paper, I would have a lot
of...I don't know whether I would do it. I am
not sure I am always a wise business person,
because I would want the paper to go to
someone that cared about the community. And I
have had two offers in the past year. One, I
know would take care of it. But the one that
paid me, I am not sure. --
Section 7: Q: Being so involved in the community,
do you ever have any worries about
conflict of interest where you maybe you,
yourself, or staff members might be serving
on boards of directors?
A: I don't care. It doesn't bother me if they
are. I will tell you one thing that is
happening right now. I am on the church
governing board. Don't ever do that. I
thought it was a no-brainer. We have a manse
to sell and our church governing board went
with...I have a woman that works with me, and
her son wanted to buy the manse. The board,
and I won't say how we all voted, but were
divided. Her son did not get the manse. We
voted to go the other way. She understood. We
decided when we started that we would not
talk about it in the office, and we didn't. I
really don't care. Actually I don't mind.
Some of my best friends have been people
that, at first, I thought were complete
idiots because they didn't agree with me. And
then I found out, it is kind of interesting.
Boy, it would be dull if everybody agreed
with you. It would be very dull. I do ask
them sometimes if they think what I am
putting in is wise, and they are pretty
honest with me. Pretty honest.
Q: I am curious about your city
council. [inaudible] You haven't mentioned
your city council?
A: People that run for public office, like
people that buy newspapers, usually have an
agenda. And you get on there and it is a
problem. They are lengthy. Sometimes people
don't understand the way things work. You
can't just do anything you want to do. You
have to abide by the city codes. So, I think
that is it. And they learn. We have a mayor
now, it has been about four months, and he is
learning, I think. Because I think he was
going to just do this and go after this
person and that person. And they are nervous
when we go to city council. The gal that
writes for me has a wonderful sense of humor,
too. Then, of course, there is the woman that
tapes every council meeting and tells me what
I have done wrong. I said, "Hey, you are
listening to it." You will find that what
people think they say is not what they say.
In other words, when you play back something,
"I didn't say that. That is not what I
meant." That is not the point. They said it.
You don't have time to second-guess it. But I
never try to make anybody look foolish. I
think you have the cat one, don't you? Where
a councilman said, we have all these stray
cats, "Just shoot them." The mayor said to
him later, "Why did you...?" I said, "I used
that. Of course, I used that. I let it go
through." Well, why wouldn't they have
figured out that is something you wouldn't
say in a city council meeting with all these
little cat-lovers in town. That is the type
of thing. There have been people that have
been upset about some of the people that have
moved into our town and that is too bad. We
are not going to be a little old, all-white
city anymore. We have to realize that. But I
notice there are no minorities in this class
either. Are there any minorities in the
journalism department? In its students? Good.
Q: Along those lines, how do you try to
incorporate the minorities into your
coverage?
A: I love the Cinco de Mayo, so I sometimes,
which is the Fifth of May Celebration, and
there is a Hispanic family there who actually
has a son who is a major, major felon. But I
like the family, so I usually deal with them.
We don't have any prejudice in our family, I
don't think. Sometimes we talk...but
basically, we don't have any prejudices in
our family. So, I think I can fit in with
ease with people that think differently and
look differently. I am just amazed. My
son-in-law's father was Filipino, but Paul is
5'11", has a degree from an Ivy League
school, and looks Hawaiian. So, it would be a
little hard for me to be prejudiced against
him. My grandson looks Chinese. Asian. So, I
know how people look at us. I said to Chase,
"You look differently in a small town. You
have going to have to be aware of that." And
he is. He is pretty good. So, people look
differently, of course they are going to look
at them. --
Section 8: Q: Could you talk a little bit about the role
of women in Iowa journalism. You were the
first woman elected president of IoNAG [the
Iowa Newspaper ??] Where do women fit in and
why were you the first woman elected
president? And why did it take so long?
A: The second woman of the Interstate
Newspaper Association (??). I think, mainly,
I have no illusions. I was put on there, I
think, because I am verbal. I don't feel
uncomfortable around big city newspapers. And
because I was not one that absolutely stood
by small town journalism. I realize the
bigger papers have the right to have some say
in the newspaper association. When I bought
the paper, it was the Iowa Press Association,
I sent in for my credentials. They came back
and the form to fill out said, "Publisher's
name. Wife's name." I wrote back and I said,
"I think you should change that." So they
did. At the time I bought the paper, there
were only two of us in the state that were
sole women owners. That were not widows or
sisters. I think there are plenty of women
who could do it, but they were wives that
were at home doing the bookkeeping, taking
care of the children, to be perfectly frank.
Now, Mary Louise Smith, whom you are going to
interview with Kenny, she had quite a say in
it. I think there are a lot of husband and
wives - Frank and Sally Moreland (??) out of
Osceola. I think they do it. But for some
reason, women didn't do it. It never bothered
me to be in a group of men because I grew up
with that. With engineering and with some of
my other activities, I am basically the only
woman a lot of times. It was just not a big
deal to me. I felt I could hold my own, and
if I didn't, then they could teach me what I
needed to know.
It has been somewhat close. A woman who is
firm and aggressive, they usually refer to
frankly, as a bitch. But a man, they just
think he is just a good businessman. I object
to that. That type of thing. So, I think,
that is part of it. If you are going to be a
woman, you can't be too aggressive
unfortunately. And you probably, maybe there
is somewhere...I don't think journalism is
bad. There is a glass ceiling, but sometimes
it is not worth fighting it. The first
candidate didn't get into the Citadel, the
first woman. The second did. There are always
those people that are going to break the
ground. How many professors are in the School
of Journalism? How many women? OK. You are
coming up. But I think journalism is better.
And there have been some women. But you look
at these women, like Sally Quinn, and some of
these others, they are thought of as pretty
strong women. As I said, I just grew up in
kind of unusual circumstances. We had...one
of my family friends was an attorney. Women
friends. We had other women who were very
involved in banking. There were a lot of role
models for all of us. My sister is at Iowa
State and argues almost daily with Dr. ?? and
keeps her job, which I think is phenomenal.
But I think it is just that there are no
sexual stereotypings in my family. In fact,
when my father was between hunting dogs, I
got to go and be the road hunter and go down
in the ditches. He just treated me as one of
the dogs. But there was none of this sexual
stereotyping. And I think you have to have
that.
Now, unfortunately, it creates, for my
daughters, some real problems because they
come out at twenty-on loaded. Well, my
younger daughter, I knew she was going to get
in trouble, so she went to college when she
was sixteen. And she was ready for it. But
they come out at sixteen to twenty with a
four-year degree and think they should get
all the courtesies that are extended to men
at that age. And that is not going to happen.
It really is unfortunate.
Q: Have you encountered any specific problems
as a women in Villisca with men? Or do men
not treat you the way they would treat a
publisher if he were a man? Can you give us
some examples?
A: I think that is true. I think there is one
businessman in town that is trying to keep me
out of the loop of the things that are going
on in their planning at the chamber [Chamber
of Commerce]. I realize that and I am going
to let it go because other people go to me. I
don't feel that strongly about standing up
for it. But I do know that sometimes, and IBM
was great at calling the newspaper and asking
for the publisher and when I would get on,
they would say, "No. May I speak to your
husband?" They have done that once they have
stopped requiring white shirts. But there are
these problems when they don't believe a
woman can be a businessman and a woman with a
sense of humor and a grandmother, you know.
That type of thing. I hate to see it, but I
think it still is there. I have a daughter in
architecture and that is male-dominated from
the word, "go." And her name is Leslie, which
I should never have named her. She has
terrible problems because they think she is a
man. She is 4'11. My daughter Ann, who is
Attila the Hun's daughter, is not going to
let any of that bother her. We just grew up,
there was no problem. And it is a disservice
sometimes, I think. If a man doesn't want to
work with me, you can't force somebody to
work with you that doesn't. You have to show
him that you are good. Sometimes, women have
to be better. They just have to be better at
what they do. It is unfortunate, but it is
part of the system. But I would like to see a
man have a baby [laughs].
It is uncomfortable to go into... I was at a
meeting recently. The newspaper association.
I was the only woman there. But I wasn't
uncomfortable. I knew these people. These are
old-time gentlemen. The younger ones have a
little respect for someone of that age. So, I
don't see a problem. And I hope young men
will treat...if you go for an interview, just
don't assume the publisher is a man either.
That is a big mistake. I think that sometimes
happens. It sounds grand, but I say
publisher/janitor. Depending upon the day.
Q: How are you treated by other publishers
and editors?
A: Great. Great. Not a problem. When I was
president of the board, we had a lot of board
meetings. My husband doesn't even look at the
paper, which is fine with me. He has his own
job and interests. So, he didn't go with me,
because he wasn't interested, but that didn't
bother me. Granted, I wouldn't be invited if
there were three couples going out for
dinner, I might not go with them. But it
didn't bother me. There has never been a
problem. When you get into community
journalism, you are usually pretty fine folk.
You understand the world and are pretty
forgiving and pretty understanding and lots
of things. --
Section 9: Q: What do you see for the future
of your paper?
A: That is tough. I probably should sell it,
but it is the one voice out there. You have
Internet. You have email and they are talking
about that. But that is not going to have the
picture of your daughter when she gets
married. That won't have the picture when
your brother gets married. It won't have the
obituaries. And we are very free on our
obituaries up to a point. I think that's...
A: So, I said, just give them each a
subscription. I am not going to fight for
another year. I just couldn't believe that.
But there is pass-along value to it and, to
them, by the time anybody in my two
communities, I will have their picture in the
paper or their name in the paper at least
once. Maybe for an arrest. But I try to do
that. I think that gives a validation to who
they are. When they see that so-and-so got a
"One" at state in piano, they will say
something to the parents. And that is a
stroke that you don't get if you live in
Cedar Rapids, although the Cedar Rapids
Gazette is a fantastic paper. And they do a
lot of special stories. But I think this is
it. So, I think there is a reason. I think it
is one voice and it is one voice that can
petition for the state to look at us and to
realize that we...how many of you have heard
the Golden Circle around Des Moines which
includes Iowa City? It is not a Golden
Circle, it is a Golden Moat. And those people
in Des Moines can't get across the bridge.
So, we do feel we are deprived. Actually, I
got rub. I wrote when the 4-H decided they
would go to "no ribbons" at the state fair, I
thought that was silly. Because they were
afraid it would hurt the kids' feelings. Hey,
that's life. You are judged. They rescinded
that, not because of what I wrote. But I
think other people felt that way. And if you
feel the property assessments...I try to give
people a venue for their expressions without
trying to hang the county assessor. They want
their questions answered. They want to know
why the school taxes are going up. They want
to know why you are letting a teacher go, and
you can tell them up to a point. And you can
settle a lot of rumors on whether something
has been sold (??) and that type of thing.
Q: With all the traditions you
have created for your newspaper, how would
you like to see that passed on?
A: Anybody that has a journalism background
is going to do it differently than I do. I
realize that. I just hope they care about the
community. I hope they realize...it is the
one business in town that people feel they
also own. You are not going to tell the
grocer that you wish he would arrange his
radishes a different way. You are not going
into the hardware store and say, "Why don't
you put these nuts here and those bolts up
there?" But they feel they own it and they
are more than willing to help you right your
wrongs in there. I just want someone who will
care about it and not use it as a
money-maker. And, if they do, ours is a
community that will reject them. I try, I
really try my best. And when it comes off the
press, I just, "Ooooh, dear God." I don't
even want to look at it because I probably
can see any error we make.
I have three rules in my office. You can't
chew gum. You have to replace the toilet
paper on the roll. And you can't pick up the
paper after it comes off the press roll and
go, "Uh oh!" Because that just cringes you.
And they will say, finally, two days later,
"I hate to tell you Carolyn, but..." And it
bothers me. That really does bother me, when
I do something like that.
