Section 1: Q: How much longer do you see yourself in the
newspaper business?
A: Well, I married a man who is fourteen
years younger than I, so I will be 79 when he
turns 65 and retires. I don't know. When it
stops becoming fun. And my family all changes
careers in their mid-fifties. I am 58, so I
may not make it, obviously. But, when it
stops becoming fun. And it is still fun and
entertaining. Which is a terrible thing, that
I have that choice to do. If you want to be
perfectly frank, I have been diagnosed I am
at cancer ??, I am at Stage 4, so I am going
to run it as long as I can. When you go
through chemo, it is pretty good to have to
get up every morning. That is the best thing
in the world. I had pans around the office so
I could throw up. It was like Pony Express
stations, but it made you get up and it made
you keep going. And that is what the concern
is. So, as long as I can do that, I will. By
the time I die, the hospital will have more
of my body parts that I am, but, by God, I am
going to keep publishing as long as I can.
And I think you will find that. Kenny
Robinson. I don't begin to know how old...he
has got to be... and he is still publishing.
There are people out there. Ed Sidey is...a
lot of these people are past sixty-five and
they are not stopping. Because once it gets
in your blood...if you people say, "Oh, I
want to work for a big paper." But if you go
to the New York Times, you are going to end
up writing obituaries. But if you work for a
community journalism area, you are going to
end up writing the stories, doing the
obituaries, taking the pictures, selling the
ads, calming the people. But you are going to
have to have a lot of faith in yourself and
respect for others.
Q: How does the community express
its appreciation for you?
A: Well, you know, the validation and all
that. I don't know. Three of us were Grand
Marshals last year in a parade and I am an
honorary member in three different county
4-H's, if that is what you mean. But I don't
really look to others for validation. I know
some of them don't like me and I really ??,
because I have bucked them on some things.
But I think they respect me and that is what
I really need. We don't mix much in the
community because we are rather family
oriented, and it takes so much time, and we
just don't happen to go out socially that
much. I am not so bad now, but I used to
absolutely never go anyplace where people
were drinking because they would usually,
somebody would have an agenda and come up to
me. And I would think, "Oh, dear God. Don't
let my husband knock him down." And they are
not kind. There is no anonymity. So, I don't
look for validation that way. I look for
validation when someone says, "I sent that
article to my son." That is a different way.
Today I got a terrific letter from a parent
who said, "We never take the time to thank
you." I did an article on a school group
and she was very appreciative. And you know,
sometimes, if they are mad at you, they won't
ask you to put something in the paper, but
they will have a friend ask you to put it in
the paper. So, it is the same difference. I
don't go to coffee groups. None of them in
the town have time. It is the information
superhighway in a small town, but I just
don't have time to go out. And we are
sometimes the last one...there is gossip. Oh,
God, is it funny sometimes. But it is
hurtful, and so I am pretty wise, I think, in
what I believe and don't.
We were talking on the way up. Two friends
came with me. In fact, one of them came to
see her daughter who is graduate of the
journalism program here. She and I are the
last to believe rumors. About eighty percent
of the rumors in a small town are not true,
and they are a hoot. The other twenty percent
are. I just don't believe them. And I will
tell you, and again you have to live in a
small town, if you really wanted to get even
with people, on a Saturday night, you would
hot wire cars and stick them in other
people's driveways. So, when the neighbors
got up, they would say, "Oh, look whose car
is in her driveway." I think that is the type
of thing that people will do and they talk
about. When I married a man fourteen years
younger, some woman at the post office even
asked if I was pregnant. I said, "No, I am
not and it is none of your business." But,
this is the thing. And that was somewhat
controversial. I went to his class reunion. I
was older than the students. I was older the
principal and the superintendent had died. I
was the oldest woman there. But you just do
your own thing. You have to have a belief in
what you are doing and you have to have a
family that backs you, whether they agree
with you or not. And sometimes, my daughters
don't. My husband figures, just say, "Yes,
dear." But he will take me to task on things,
too. But that is part of it. You have to have
a fairly strong self identity. --
Section 2: Q: In your community, you said the
population gets older and older and is not
being replaced by younger people. Who is
moving into your community? Are there
immigrants?
A: We have some Hispanics who work out...we
have an egg laying plant out...which is not
the egg breaking plant east of us. Which is
interesting, people. Have you ever seen 1.25
million hens in one building. I guess there
are ten buildings. But there are some others
moving in. The farm families are having four
children. The younger ones are having more
children. We have people that would come
back. We have daughters and sons that would
come back. My daughter did. Two master's
degrees, snuck into Beirut twice, and came
back to a small town. But there are no jobs
for them. We have educated them. Our school
has an enormously successful scholarship
program. And there are no places to live. So,
these people would come back, but where do
you...someone who works in some sort of blood
chemistry wants to come back, where is he
going to work? They want to come back. That
is why I say, halfway joking on this, someone
comes from California, we will build them a
little building for a small business. But
there are new people coming in. Sometimes
like Duckwall (??), which is a division of
Alcoa, that is a chain store. And they come
with it.
When I moved down there twenty-two years,
geez twenty-four years ago, my husband and I
were the first full imports in that community
in I don't know how long. A school teacher
and a wife... but we came to do something
else. And it was a very close little...five,
six generations. Now, times have changed.
These people are off in different parts of
the world. In fact, we even have a subscriber
in the penitentiary.
Q: What for?
A: You don't want to know. I said, "I don't
understand this address." And ?? said, "Shut
up, Carolyn."
Q: Are you folding Hispanics into the
editorial niche of the paper?
A: No, I am not. I think it is Tama that does
such a terrific job. Because we don't have
that many. The ones we have...we have one
family and they have some foster children.
But they all speak English. They are
California Hispanics. To these people,
sometimes, being foreign was being
Episcopalian. But that is getting over it.
And they really have, I think, accepted
newcomers. Whether they would or not, I don't
know. It is because of their lack of
experience in dealing with other cultures. It
is not that they don't know. We have a
Swedish town, Stanton, next to us that I do
some news for. They have a lot of Swedes that
come to visit. And we have a lot of foreign
exchange students that are well accepted.
But, as far as coming to live, there is a
mindset about whether, sometimes, these
people should be let in. It's too bad,
because I figured my family wouldn't let
anybody else in. We have been here since the
1600s. Dull family.
Q: [question inaudible - related
to the role of the paper, migration in and
tolerance]
A: Yes. Absolutely tolerance.
Q: How would you do that?
A: I do an editorial a lot of times. I did do
one as far as tolerance and moderation on the
sportsmanship. That was one that really
caused a lot more...do you want to hear the
background on that at all?
Q: Sure.
A: You are talking about other races.
Q: Yes. I am talking about ethnic
issues.
A: No. But I have written about it, tongue in
cheek sometimes, saying, "I want an ethnic
group to belong to. I have been here so long.
Who made them king of the area." I guess I
have told family stores which involved...my
daughter did a piece after she got back from
Beirut and how she got in there
surreptitiously. And explained that there are
Christians there. There are no homeless in
Beirut. They move them in. There are no
runny-nosed children wandering around the
streets. They are all clean and taken care
of. So, you see, we have someone that
maybe...one of the fellows that writes for
me, does some world traveling, and he writes
back. But, as far as confronting, we do not
have that problem. I don't think this is
fortunate, because when these people leave,
these young kids, they walk into jobs in
cities and they find out that there are other
colors and other religions and other ethnic
groups. I think it would be great. But there
has not been an occasion for me to do that.
As far as the gays and homosexuals, I have
never had a problem. My only response to
that, when people were upset about who lives
in our community, is that, "They aren't
reproducing and going on the welfare roles.
So, don't complain about them." I think we
all have some worth in this world. And that
is the one thing I try to get through when I
do talk, we are all different and it would be
damn dull if we weren't. I am bothered, a
little bit, by this - I hate to say white
supremacy - but there is that sort of thing.
"They are foreigners. They don't talk like we
do." Sometimes, those people down in our area
don't talk really well either. We don't have
the problems that you do. And I am not sure
it should be a problem. I think it should be
an opportunity. --
Section 3: Q: [question inaudible.]
A: It has been on. Businesses being sold.
Businesses being closed. If you are talking
about personal relationships, no. If you are
talking about something in the county
courthouse that is going on, or something the
sheriff is doing that is wrong, or something
that the school board is doing that is wrong,
yeah, that does make a difference. And the
gossip is, "Did you know they had a secret
meeting?" And I said, "No, they can't have a
secret meeting." Chances are, they didn't.
But I have called them on a couple of things.
I had one week where I had a city council and
a school board, two different communities,
that had done something that was in error.
So, I called Joe ?? , the legal hotline. You
don't want to say, "Here I am. I am God. Here
are the rules." But you say, "I wouldn't do
that if I were you."
I will tell you one time when I backed off. I
didn't do anything, but I didn't want to make
an issue of it for a reason. It was not my
community, but there was a pep rally in
another community. I went. They were having
this team going to state. I was so affronted
and a friend of mine saw it, and he left,
too. One of the teachers came out in
blackface. I thought that was appalling. I
was so angry about that. I went home and
called my friend who is on a Uniserve, which
deals with teachers. I was livid. She said,
"Stop. Carolyn, you can put it in the paper."
I didn't take a picture, because I wasn't
going to. I could have. But I did call the
superintendent and notified all the school
board. I talked to the superintendent and
said, "I hope that will never happen again.
Do you have a clue of what happened?" I don't
understand. I don't know if they did. But
they backed off that. It would have been
something. It would have hit the Des Moines
and Omaha paper and would have had this
picture of this teacher. But what good would
it have done? You can be high and mighty, but
at some point, I think, just calling them and
saying, "Don't do it." I have talked with
other people from that community. One other
businessman from the community was upset and
left. I don't think the others had a clue. I
don't think they had a clue.
Now, the third grade re-enacted the Rosa
Parks bussing situation. They had white
sweatsuits and black sweatsuits and I thought
that was the way to handle it. So they did
it. But, I think we are just ignorant,
sometimes, of what we do.
Q: When you say they didn't have a
clue, does that mean they didn't know what
happened or they didn't understand the hurt
of it?
A: They didn't understand the hurt of it, no.
I talked to enough people. I think they
understood it. But I guess I was upset that
there were other teachers around that didn't
stop her.
Q: What do you think the role of a
teacher should be as a moral guide?
A: An interesting question. I would like
to...it is like I tell my children, "You have
to do what's right. You have to think what's
right." I would like to try to do what is
right. If I get a seatbelt violation, I am
certainly not going to go up and yell at the
newspaper. But that is interesting. I don't
know how my morals and what my morals are,
how they would not fit in with the community.
But I just feel that I don't pre-judge
people, I don't think. Unless they come in
chewing gum. I don't pre-judge people and
that is what I am trying to get through to
people through the newspaper. And moral
issues on the homosexuality, lesbian, I have
no problem with that. That shouldn't even
involve anything. It has not. It should never
be a question.
I am coaching some kids in Odyssey of the
Mind. I don't know if you what that is. It is
a program from the high school. So, I have
got these high school kids who are supposed
to go to regionals Saturday and they are not
getting their act together. But I came in as
they were discussing whether a young man was
gay or not. I said, "Does it really make a
difference?" "Well, I just don't like him." I
said, "Fine, you don't like him because you
don't like him or because you..." And the
other kids were all piling on this guy
saying, "Hey. Wait a minute. That has
nothing..." And I said, "Good for you." I
respected the one young man saying he didn't
like him. But, the answer is whether he
didn't like him because he didn't like him or
because he thought he was gay. I don't know.
And I have people come to me and want me to
back them on some issues with the law, shall
we say, that type of thing. I can give them
advice, but that is all. And the morals... if
I do anything wrong, I expect to be arrested.
I go up to school and park in the yellow zone
sometimes because I just run in for a minute,
in front of the school. I don't do
handicapped, but I do yellow zone. I have
told the police, "Give me a ticket. If you
catch me, that is fine, because I did wrong.
I am not going to fight it." But I will tell
you, the Red Oak Express one time, I got
caught driving and got a warning ticket. But
I got a ticket for driving on an expired
license for three years and nine months. I
was further ahead by not getting the...so, I
had to take the driving test and also the
written test. I couldn't even drive out to
Casey's to get milk. So, anyway, the Red Oak
Express took my name from the middle of the
pack and put it up in front. And put it in
bold. And I just thought it was hoot.
But, you know, if you want to talk about
mores, this happened to a friend in a nearby
newspaper, a young girl was arrested for
shoplifting. She came in and said, "Oh,
please don't use my name. It will just kill
my grandmother." He used her name and she was
arrested two weeks later for shoplifting
again. So, I have had people say, "You are
not going to use the names, are you?" And I
say, "Yes, I am." And that is why I said to
this young man's family, "I am sorry. I have
to use Jeff's name." You can't play
favorites. Then you get in real trouble if
you do.
Q: With regard to the teacher that came out
in blackface, was that a story that maybe you
should have reported to let your subscribers
know that there was this kind of thing going
on?
A: Now think about this. Wouldn't that be a
front page story in Des Moines or Cedar
Rapids. Yes. OK. That's fine. But, isn't it
better? And yes, was I a coward on that? No,
I don't think so because sometimes, if you
are a young, hungry journalist, you are going
to do anything. But that is when you work for
a big paper or you are just a new starter.
You are not working with these people all the
time. And she knew I was upset afterwards, so
I took care of it then. I did say something
to the school board. I did say something to
the superintendent. And they said something
to the teachers. So, yes, it would have been
a great chance. I probably could have got a
winning editorial. But, at some point, you
have to realize, yes, you are making choices
there. And I don't think I backed down on it
because I did let everybody know that I was
upset. But, I guess, the public, maybe they
are kind of silly and don't understand. The
fact the teachers didn't know it upset me
enough that I did tell the school board and
the superintendent and they told them. And, I
told them, if it ever happened again, I would
get it and it probably would be published in
the Omaha and Des Moines paper with a
picture. I think Omaha would have picked it
up.
Q: Why not share it with other readers? If it
meant to much to you, why not share it with
other people? And, were you using your
authority as publisher to do some power
playing?
A: If it were power playing, I would use it.
If you want to be that, and this is maybe
not, I will be interested, if you use that
with other people, what they would do. If you
ask the same question to some of these other
journalists that come in. I think I could
pretty well guarantee most of them would say
they would handle it the same way I did.
There is no point in going out and purposely
creating a problem, which this was. I also
told our school board and superintendent. Our
school board just looked stunned. I, to this
day, don't know how any of the other teachers
felt. I just told the superintendent and
school board that they had better talk to
their...and tell them. I don't know if others
were offended. I do know this one businessman
was because he called me the next day and
said, "Carolyn, I agreed with you." He might
have been the only one to see my face. I
could have easily had my grandson, the one
that looks Chinese, with me. In that case, I
would have created one hell of a public
scene. There is no question. But, not in
front of him if he had left. You can get up
on your podium all the time, but, maybe I did
back down on that, but I would still do it
again.
Q: Would it be different if it were in
Villisca?
A: I might be more apt to use it in Villisca.
No, I don't think I would have. I still
wouldn't have. But I can actually say that
twenty-five percent of the people that were
there, at that time, knowing Villisca people,
would have come down and said something or
would have walked out. Now, I don't know how
many walked out with me. I know two - I did
and this other man. But I don't about any
others. And, I don't know. I probably
wouldn't have. But I would have made darn
sure it didn't happen again. So, maybe that
was a judgment call, but I would still do it.
But I don't have any anonymity that some of
these people have. Yes, their name is on
there and they can recall them and write
them. But they don't see them at the grocery
story. They don't see them at church. And
that is just part of it.
Q: [question inaudible - related
to the valuing the community over other
issues]
A: So I probably lost money over the years. I
had two grocery stores. They each thought I
showed the other one their ad. I just had a
terrible time convincing them I never. I
would never show the opposing grocer the ad.
But they came out with the same...oranges
might be the same prices. That is not...that
is a market-driven thing. Yeah, I do. And
that is why, if I did sell the paper, I would
like to sell it to somebody that would keep
it going. Whether that is feasible, I don't
know. But I still see the day when Montgomery
and Mills and Page and Taylor and Fremont,
about four counties will have a paper and
will have offices. That is the way it is
going to be. And probably change it to a
twice-weekly. That would be economically
driven.
Q: How would that affect Villisca?
A: They would come after you. Let me tell
you, you would be tarred and feathered. It
would be like taking away the school. And
that is one reason that would be. So, you
would have to be very careful and judicious.
You would have to keep an office there with
someone other than just a secretary. You
could do it, but you would have to be very
judicious. They want their identify.
Q: Would this create rivalries
between the other communities?
A: I think it would ease them a little bit. --
Section 4: Q: [inaudible question - "cheap
trick" question.] What do you want them to
say at your memorial service?
A: I hope the same thing they said at my
father's memorial service where we had on the
organ, "Where the Saints Come Marching In,"
and also "Seventy-Six Trombones." One woman
stood up and defined, "He taught us you are
never too old to fly kites." And I hope that
is what they would do. They would have fun. I
like to have it said that I lived honorably.
That might be questionable. In fact, to be
perfectly frank, they had on CNN who planned
his own memorial service and I have talked
about that. But I am not sure the town would
go for it. But you see, I want to serve
Ho-Ho's and gumdrops and Manhattans at my
reception afterwards and I want to be there
to take part.
And I will tell you another thing to be
perfectly frank, when I was first diagnosed
with breast cancer, I had surgery. I was back
in the office in five days, working full
time. I had chemotherapy and lost my hair.
Boy, no shampoo for six months. When my
daughter came home, she said, "Where is the
shampoo?" I said, "I don't know. I don't use
it." Then I had radiation. I have had
radiation again and I am on chemotherapy.
What I found out is, if you have something
you like, you can do it. But I also started
sharing in my columns the story of the cancer
and how I am dealing with it. And I was
amazed at the response. I just got one call
Monday and a call today about this women whom
I don't know in town who has leukemia. And,
she is having a really tough time dealing
with it. Now, I am a second generation breast
cancer, so I was not surprised. I beat the
odds the first time. Whether I do the second
time, I don't know. But I think I have the
opportunity probably to teach people as much
about chemotherapy as anything. And that you
survive and you choose the high moments.
There is no given in life. I would like to
think that I could help educate them on it.
And, yes, you have to have a family that is
supportive and you have to have a faith in
God and you have to have a good oncologist.
And I have a personal physician who is the
reason I am alive because he is very
aggressive. He has the bedside manner of
Saddam Hussein, but he is a very aggressive
man. He has gotten me good care. I am on some
experimental stuff. I go every two months and
I don't buy new underwear until I get a good
report from the doctor. I redid my kitchen
and I had the contractor on hold until I good
report in December. So, you live life to
life. And people in town know that. So, that
gives me an opportunity to communicate with
something that is very serious. One in nine
women, if I could preach a little bit, has
breast cancer. Which means at some point, you
must know somebody in your family who has had
it or is going through it. And I think that
reinforces my passion for the community
because they have been good to me. When I
have been hospitalized, for a while we snuck
the computer in and had the janitor check it.
I would hide it in the closet when the doctor
came by and then we would get it out and plug
it in. And they have strips where you are
supposed to put the get well cards, we put
the strips for make-up. We would put them in
there. We would lay out the paper. And then I
would put everything away and be sitting
there when the doctor came in because the
nurses would always warn me. But that keeps
you going. That's the point. Then I
discovered he knew damn well. Now, he keeps
saying, "Where is your Power Book?" I said,
"Up in the closet." I think that gives it the
spin. That is why, once you get cancer, you
just don't feel you have to apologize to
anybody for what you are doing. That puts a
different spin on things. And you don't
suffer fools anymore. So, that makes
journalism almost a little easier. If you had
any ?? you wanted to take out, you could.
I want to do a story soon. We have lost our
Safe House. I don't know if you that is what
is referred to for people from domestic abuse
can go to. Men or women. And now they are
trying to do it out of Atlantic and I am not
sure that is a reasonable thing. Statistics
show that a woman will call the police
seventeen times before she will ever go and
seek safety. So, if we can find a family, we
can do this with and deal with on this, on
this domestic abuse question. We know what
happens. I had a school nurse tell me ten
years ago that she thinks twenty-five percent
of the students in schools are victims of
incest. And that is a pretty high amount when
you think of it. How you define incest.
So, there are stories there I am trying to
work on, but I cannot go to Omaha and do the
stories because that does not give any
validation to what I have running and you
have got to do it locally. There is domestic
abuse out there. There is child abuse.
Teachers now are mandated to report any child
abuse. So, there are a lot of stories out
there if you can get people to talk. And
anonymously, yes, I use them. But, I have to
have them sign off on it. Then I will just
put it away. They said, "Would you go to jail
for them?" I said, "It wouldn't bother me. I
wouldn't have to worry about deadlines." I am
sure the sheriff would want me out of that
jail so fast. I don't like the color of
jails. They need to paint them, actually. --
Section 5: Q: Are there any sacred cows in Villisca and
how do you treat those?
A: No, I don't think even the churches are
because we have an inter-church council that
is really remarkable. No, I don't think there
are any families and there aren't any people
that are sacred cows.
Q: Have you ever had an employee
who embellishes stories and how do you deal
with it?
A: I just cut it out. I just cut the stuff
out. She is not a trained journalist, but she
is a damn fine writer. In fact, we entered
something. I am hoping she gets something for
it.
Q: Would you let her keep writing?
A: You bet. You know, I say, we don't put any
judgment calls. Yeah, I do, because she is
good and she has got a lot of potential and
she just doesn't realize how good she is. In
fact, I am so afraid somebody is going to try
and hire her from me. I want to take her name
off the stories. I figured that would be
fair. Say, "I wrote them."
Q: How much does an entry level
reporter make?
A: On mine. She came in as a salesman.
Basically, I don't pay that much, so I would
rather not say. But I am below what the level
is now. I think they are talking about
twenty-two for beginning reporters. So, I am
a little below that. But I am also very
demanding. I am demanding that they don't
tell tales out of school. We get outrageous
in there. If you worked anyplace where you
are tired, you get really outrageous. I will
tell you what happened at Iowa State. I could
not believe it. I have not seen it, but I
have had it told me and I think it is true.
Do any of you work on the Daily? That guy is
terrific. Casey is his name? He spoke at a
INA [??] meeting and God, he was good. You
have got a winner. Anyway, the Iowa State
Daily had a story and they had a cutline. It
had a young man in a computer lab. This is
what I have been told by two people. Anyway,
this young man was sitting there. And instead
of saying he was just practicing going on the
Internet, it said he was seeking
twelve-year-old girls to have sex with on the
Internet - and they were being funny. It went
to press without pulling it. That hit every
small town...I don't know what the fallout
from that is. But I have told people, don't
ever joke around with the paper because you
will read over it. It is just like, don't
ever proof anything you have typed because
you don't see their mistakes. They were being
cute. That could absolutely destroy how
people looked at the Daily. As my sister
said, it is going out to Slippery Rock,
Pennsylvania' it is going out to the
University of California. And that is just
something you don't know. Now I don't know
how that was resolved. I don't have a temper.
That is one thing. I don't have a temper, but
I think at that point, I would probably skin
them alive. --
Section 6: Q: In your area, or region, if
Iowa, is there a white supremacy movement?
A: Not organized. We are not that near
Missouri. You know the old saying, "If they
could drop the two tiers down into Missouri,
it would raise the IQ of both states." But,
no we don't. I think there is no Aryan Nation
or that type of thing. There are no
skinheads. There are rednecks, but there are
no skinheads. Our drive-by shootings are just
shooting at coyotes, by the way. Nothing
else.
Q: There are a number of social
issues that have come up over the years in
the state of Iowa. [inaudible question] Gay
rights and others. Have you taken an
editorial stand on those?
A: The ERA (??) did and our county was the
only one in the state that passed it. In
1988. That was interesting. Not really, no, I
haven't. You know, there is a difference
between how you feel and how the law should
probably be interpreted. So, I haven't. Gay
rights wouldn't bother me at all. The
abortion, I am having some really...I am
ambivalent now. I have changed with my age,
which is interesting because my siblings
have, too, in how they feel. But the gay
rights, no. I think people know. Because of
the friends we have, very obviously, that it
is not an issue. And I don't think in many
ways it is in our community because there are
some and they seem to be working well. I
think we are more nervous about them. I just
think it is a hoot. God, it is just an
accident of birth you are born a WASP. It is
an accident of birth you are born
heterosexual, so I don't think they should
get too much on their high horse.
Q: How about issues like
alcoholism?
A: I took a stand on raising on the age of
alcohol. What else have I done? I can't
really think of anything that has been a
state issue, particularly. Gerrymandering, I
would certainly take a stand on because we
are in the same judicial...as Ames was. We
are probably, in many ways, more liberal. Our
little area is rather odd. It may have only
seven Democrats and I can identify six of
them and I am the seventh. But they are
relatively liberal in many ways. I think it
goes back to the farm, too. You have got to
realize the farmer is a fairly liberal
person. Singularly, I will say that. Because
they are not used to having to bow down to
unions or anything else, although it is
changing now. --
Section 7:
A: ... if you want real controversy, and I did
write on it, before it was even controversial, the
corporate hog lots. I don't know if you are
well aware of it. And my feeling was, and my
former husband was involved in a very large
one, there are some farmers in our
area...these hog lots are coming in and they
are talking about three thousand sows or ten
thousand sows. The environmental issue aside,
and that is something that hasn't...my
husband had worked with Jack Decoster (??)
who is well known. Many of you people know
him. He came down and asked what our
community could do for him. I said, "Not a
damn thing. You have more money than we do.
But we could put something down there." But
environmental problems aside, and Iowa has
not done a good job yet putting anything in,
the initial lagoons, which are the ones...and
this is very serious for all of you because
of the ground water, were not properly
installed because nobody knew anything about
it. So, now come the hog lots and the big
Tyson, Jack Decoster, Rex ?? They come into
Iowa and people say, "Oh, protect the poor
farmer." And I did take a stand on that, and
I expected some flak on this. No one worried
about the small town businesses when Wal-Mart
came in and Wal-Mart is the hog lot of the
business world. So, I was comparing them to
that. I did have some people say, "I think
that is kind of odd." I said, "Look. You
farmers are in Wal-Mart all the time. I try
to buy locally as much as I can. I buy my
cars locally. I may pay a little more, but I
do it because I was brought up with that
idea." We bank locally. My father split his
business and his personal accounts between
two banks because he wanted to keep both
bankers happy. The hog lots are going to
become a real issue in the future. I
guarantee probably within two years, even the
city folk will know about them. I would
actually like to run for the board of
supervisors, but I don't want to put up with
the problems of the hog lots. So, that I have
taken a stand on. I can't really think of
anything else.
The instructional levy the school put on.
That was the one defeat I ever had. I was on,
and people knew I was on, the committee that
raised the money for the hospital and that
kind of stuff. And let's be honest. They may
not want me on...maybe they don't like me
personally, but it looks good to have the
newspaper supporting an issue. If I don't
like the issue, I won't support it and I
won't be on the committee. I will just turn
them down.
The gay issue is not a problem for us. The
gay rights, that is not a problem. I don't
know what would be. I would think restricting
the driving, the licenses they are now
running around Iowa with, raising it. I might
be against that because we have kids that are
fifteen and have jobs. They go to school and
you can drive when you are fifteen. Maybe
fourteen if you have a learner's permit, or a
special permit. And when you live twenty
miles out, or twelve miles out, that makes a
difference if your child can drive. If the
child violates it, their license is usually
lifted. I have told a couple of friends, "I
hope you realize your daughter is doing a
little extra driving," only because - did I
write about them, no. But I might say, "Look
folks, don't alienate the public by doing
this where people see you." Of course, these
kids that drive at fourteen always have
bright little red cars and I don't think that
is too wise if you ?? where no one will see
you.
I am just trying to think of some school
issues that I got involved in. All day
kindergarten comes forth. But I said, that
had to be up to the parent, because they knew
the child. I can't really think of anything
else. Oh, yes. I did. You have athletics now.
You have boys and girls basketball. Boys
basketball, you can get up, in the districts
you can get up near the mat and take the
pictures. Girls basketball, you can't. In
fact, they stopped the game one night. There
were two of us out there. I thought, "Well,
he is out there." "You can't be there on the
mat." I said, "Why?" Well, they don't know,
but maybe they are afraid the girls would get
injured when they run into you." I said,
"Heck, those girls outweigh me." But I never
got anywhere with Wayne Cooley (??), I think,
is the girls' athletic director. I never got
anywhere with him. But I think that is one of
those silly things. It is not worth making a
big deal, but I did write about it. So, the
school makes sure they tell me every time
there is a girls district basketball game,
where I am supposed to stand.
Q: Have you written about the phenomenon of
the Wal-Martization of Iowa and was that a
courageous stand to editorialize against
Wal-Mart?
A: I don't think so. What are they going to
do to me? I am a flea on the elbow of
journalism. And I wouldn't care if they were.
They don't advertise. They don't advertise
with almost anybody. And, you see, that is
where the problem is. Ken Stone at Iowa State
has those statistics which, if any of you are
going into community journalism, you better
look at. In some cases, in, I think, Creston,
it might be...in Creston, it might have
helped a couple of businesses as far as food,
restaurants. But a lot of places...it drove
Pamida out of...it drove Kmart out of
Creston, it drove Pamida out of Shenendoah.
Whether these people folded up before they
even tried, I don't know. But Red Oak now has
both a Pamida and a Kmart and they seem to be
surviving. That wouldn't bother me. And
sometimes, people are just amazing. They will
drive to Red Oak to buy milk because it is
fifty cents a gallon less. Not realizing the
wear and tear they put on their car. Then
they wonder what happens to small businesses.
And, yes, I have taken stands on that. But,
anything I can buy at home, I do. Maybe I pay
a little bit more, but then I expect service,
too. --
Section 8: Q: One of your articles was about
naming a ten-year-old juvenile. Do you want
to talk about that a little bit and the
decision to name him?
A: One of my editorials. It was soul
searching, but I think it goes back to the
fact that in Iowa now, in certain cases, you
can name ten-year-old juveniles. I would. The
people, if you do name a juvenile, I think
the parents think it is minus against them.
Once your children turn ten, they pretty well
have their future ahead of them. If they are
going to be a juvenile delinquent at ten,
chances are they are not going to change. And
I think that is only right. That is the law.
The kids better know their names are going to
be in paper. And I would tell them that. As I
said, my children always knew, no matter what
their age, their name was going in the paper.
Although I found out later, I could have been
in really serious trouble if they had been
minors and I put their names in the paper.
Which they told me. They had checked.
I think, if there is a law, you have got to
fight it. There is one, and I know the
journalists here are going to have a fit,
there is one caveat to that. One place I
might not. And it has not come up. And that
is the name of a rape victim. That is the one
place I differ with almost everybody in the
state of Iowa and with the Register. And I
will tell you why. It doesn't have anything
to do with me personally. It is because our
society, and I think it is coming around, but
views rape as an entirely different crime
than anything else. If your friend is
assaulted and beaten up and mugged, oh, you
feel sorry for her. And you go and you help
her and you talk to her and everything else.
If she is raped, you say, "Gee. What should I
say?" So, right there it is defined as
different. You blame the woman if she is
walking on a street. If she is mugged, you
will stay that was stupid. She should have
known better. But if she was raped, then you
will say, well, she was kind of maybe asking
for it being out there. That has not come up
with me, because, for some reason, I hear
stories and I go and they are never charged.
There is no rape charge. If it is not a
public record, there is no way of my getting
it officially and I will not take what
somebody tells you off the record. That is
stupid. If anybody tells you off the record,
they are never going to keep a secret and
that is dumb. They might be able to say, "I
don't know anything about it. Ask so-and-so."
But the rape is the one thing, I don't know.
It has never been confronted. And I am not
sure I would use the name because I just feel
our society is coming around, but is still
not at that point. It is just too bad, but
that is the way it is. --
Section 9: Q: How long did you serve as the president of
INA [Interstate Newspaper Association]?
A: I was on the board for six years and the
last year was the year I was president.
Q: What does the Interstate Newspaper
Association, what states does that cover?
A: South Dakota, Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa.
And if you ever get a chance to, it is a
neat...I haven't been able to go the last
couple of years because I have been at
homecoming those weekends. That is another
thing, folks. You don't get any holidays with
your family, if it interferes with something
that is going on in town. The publishers from
those areas. They are all locally owned
papers and we are all in the trenches. It is
really a good group and it is fun. And
Nebraska has...they have changed, but they
used to have some really wild newspapers out
there. I have judged newspapers from other
states and they really have come a long way.
They are probably at the frontier of
journalism. And South Dakota, oddly enough,
has some very sophisticated papers.
Q: Talk for a little bit about the advent of
chains. Chains taking over the small,
privately owned papers. The newspaper groups.
A: When you are tied to the bottom dollar, I
think your perspective changes. If I hired
somebody to be the publisher, they would have
more freedom. If you were a publisher at a
chain newspaper, sure, you have some freedom.
But they still have to toe the mark. I think,
also, sometimes, when you get these chains,
you lose the feeling you have for the
community because publishers come and go.
Clarinda has had three in five years. There
is no loyalty. I hate to say loyalty. But you
don't feel as responsible as you are if you
are a member of a chain. I don't know about
Orange County because that is such a big
paper, but I think, in our case, you have to
have a real feel for these newspapers and
care about them, the newspapers themselves.
And I am not sure the chains, sometimes, do.
I know they are very aggressive when they
come in. They clean house sometimes. And
there have been a couple of cases around us.
Once they buy a paper, they seem to put
editors and publishers through there real
quickly and pressmen seem to disappear right
and left. And with advertising, they are
especially aggressive. They want you to do a
certain amount of advertising. So, I think
maybe it has killed a little bit of the
freedom of the press. And I don't mean as far
as rights. But just the way it is done.
Q: Your family has come up several
times tonight. Have you been able to have
both a career in journalism and your family
and have time it all.
A: You bet. Because we don't do that much
socially. I mean, we do, but not that much.
My daughters will come home and I will press
them into service. One is an excellent
graphic artist and the other one can write.
In fact, she is teaching writing. But they
don't want the hours. But I told my
daughters, they were ten and fourteen, when I
bought the paper, that unfortunately, the
first couple of years, that had to come
first. And they were really good. They
understood. I never missed anything
important. But, if there was something that I
had to take a picture of, they usually went
with me. And my grandchildren now go with me.
Then, I have the advantage. I have a flat. We
have a three bedroom flat upstairs. Like a
house because it has two bathrooms and a
family room. So, I am close to the business.
I have been known to sneak down, I don't do
it anymore, but I used to sneak down in my
little fuzzy bunny slippers and my nightgown
and do some work in the office. Then I got to
thinking, that was kind of stupid, because if
I fell, it would be a little hard to explain
to somebody what I was doing outside in my
nightgown. So, I don't do that. But, I think
they know...and both my daughters are
passionate about what they do and they have
made the same statements to their families.
My siblings are like that, too.
Q: You mentioned about your
husband doesn't read the paper. Do your
daughters also read the paper?
A: They read the paper, avidly. But only
after they went to college. They thought it
was just a silly little paper.
Q: What is the main reason why
your husband doesn't read the paper?
A: I talk to him about it all the time.
Because he is a great reader. And it is fine
with me, because he would probably find
errors. I just hate it when my husband
criticizes me. And it doesn't bother me. But
he finds out that he is written about
sometime. If someone says something to him
around town. "I see you made the column
again." He will go, "Yeah." Then he will come
home and say, "OK. Where is that column?" And
it doesn't really bother me. He reads other
papers. He reads all the newspapers that come
into our house. I suppose it should, but he
is proud of me. He is proud of what I do or
he wouldn't put up with me, for sure. --
Section 10: [transcript not available]
