Section 1: Q: Would you like to see a Society page
again, today? Or some form of a Society
page?
A: Not as big as it was. But, yes, I think
social news would be well read. And Jane
Canady who is on your list, and I, really
protested when they dropped all that. But the
men prevailed and said, "No, women are above
that now."
Q: Why do you think that is needed?
A: I think people like to read about other
people. They had what we call "Personal
Columns," and maybe so much as a whole column
of so-and-so going someplace for a weekend.
And I think people might still be interested.
Of course, long ago, Des Moines was much more
a small town atmosphere to it.
Q: How about that problem of having society
here and the rest of us over here?
A: I don't think you could do that now. I
don't think anybody would want to. You would
have to use whatever came in, probably. And
maybe it wouldn't work now. Maybe people are
too busy and aren't interested. I would still
like to read about somebody having a nice,
big party and who they invited. But, I don't
know if there would be that much interest.
Class member: We have People Magazine now.
A: I think we worked on the theory that these
prominent people in town were of interest to
everybody. And when the Hubbells and the
Kruideniers had parties, we figured everybody
enjoyed reading out it.
Q: Did you ever get to be real friendly with
the Hubbells and the Kruideniers?
A: Dave, of course, was our publisher.
Everybody was friendly with him. He was like
the Cowles. He was down in the newsroom. You
didn't socialize with him a lot, but you had
a good relationship. And the Hubbells were my
neighbors, so I knew some of them. Des
Moines, for years, was more like a small
town. You knew people. Maybe not in a real
personal way.
Q: We talked about covering society and what,
to the papers, society was. Wealthy white
people.
A: Oh, yes.
Q: Were there any blacks who became reporters
at the paper during your day?
A: Not for years. Before I quit, we had one
in the women's department. A feature writer.
And a young man, almost always there was a
young man, different ones. But not many.
Q: Why was that?
A: I think they tried to hire them and
couldn't find anybody interested or qualified
then. I think they still try. But they don't
seem to drift into journalism.
Q: They don't drift into Des Moines Register
journalism?
A: I really don't know whether the big cities
have a lot more blacks on their staffs or
not. But, we have always had one or two good
people. Good reporters. Good editors. But,
not a lot. Not as many as there should be. --
Section 2: Class member: You said you went to Drake
University. As you think back about it, was
that education in journalism helpful to you?
Did that help you at all?
A: Yes, because we got out the school paper
and so we did learn how to do the practical
things. That helped me on my first job. I
knew how to lay out pages and copy read and
do all the things that they wouldn't like to
take time to train you to. They didn't hire
anyone but journalism graduates at that time.
Later on, I think they relaxed a little. And
before that time, they didn't like college
graduates. My first managing editor, in fact
"Stuffy" Walters said, "I have to unlearn
them everything they learned."
Class member: What did you like better? Being
an editor or on news staff, a reporter?
A: I liked both. When I was doing the
editing, I liked it. But I really enjoyed it
when I didn't have to do anything but Home
Furnishings and Decorating.
Class member: When you were an editor, did
you hear people grumbling about you? "That
Mary Bryson, she is a tough editor."
A: I didn't hear them, but I am sure they did
it. [laughs] But for the most part, we had an
agreeable staff relationship there, I think.
There were a few that thought you ruined
their story by cutting it. Fortunately, in
our department, everybody did some editing
and everybody did some writing. So you
learned space is a problem and you have to
cut some places.
Class member: Did other papers try to hire
you away from the Register?
A: No, but Better Homes and Gardens did.
Class member: What made you stay?
A: I liked newspaper work. I did a lot of
free lancing for Better Homes and Gardens and
liked doing that, but I just liked working on
a newspaper.
Class member: Did you write for Better Homes
and Gardens at the same time you were on the
Register?
A: No, actually I didn't. After I retired, I
did a lot of furniture writing for Better
Homes and Gardens. And you had to travel for
Better Homes and Gardens and I didn't think I
wanted to do that with a family.
Class member: What was the paper's policy on
free lancing?
A: We could free lance and several people
did. My husband did all the time for Sports
Illustrated. It wasn't easy in those days.
Now I think it is very easy to free lance.
People like free lancing because they don't
have to pay all the medical benefits.
Class member: You are still free lancing?
A: I haven't for a year, but I am going to
start doing something again. I had an illness
in the family and then couldn't go to the
market anymore.
Class member: Can you tell us about the
process of free lancing. What free lancers
do?
A: Most of mine has just been either for the
Register or for Better Homes and Gardens.
Class member: And they have all been
furniture?
A: Yes, all in the furniture field. But, my
son, of course, free lanced a lot. My
youngest son that now just writes books. He
still writes magazine articles. It is a hard
field to get into to earn a living. But if it
is just extra money, it is not bad.
Class member: Can you tell us how much you
get for a free lance article?
A: You don't get a lot from the newspaper. A
couple of hundred dollars. You get quite a
bit from a magazine. Six hundred to a
thousand dollars for an average furniture
story from Better Homes and Gardens. I think
Hugh used to get a lot of money when he did
for National Geographic and bigger
publications. --
Section 3: lass member: How did you localize a home
furnishings and decorating story for the Des
Moines Register?
A: We tried to work with the stores to see if
the stores carried items. But we also ran
stories about furniture that was not
available here, with the idea that then, they
might order it and take on some of those
lines. And, over the years, they have. All
those expensive lines are now available here,
too. We did a lot of [stories about] local
homes and that type of thing and Iowa homes,
particularly. And now, they just don't spend
the money to have somebody do much in the way
of home furnishings. They get packets of
stuff from other Gannett papers and it
doesn't cost them anything.
Q: You have been replaced by the mail.
A: Yeah. Replaced by the syndicated feature.
Q: In many ways, what you did, I think, is
akin to being a critic. You were there to
say, "This is what we have got in Des Moines
and this is what we could have." You sort of
provided a preview of style and of how home
furnishings can be.
MB: A great deal of what we would cover from
the market would be what's new. Sometimes, it
wouldn't last very long because it was too
bizarre and too unusual. But, we thought it
was still interesting for people to read
about. And then, what's good and what colors
are in and what local people could do with
their homes.
Q: There seems to be a real monetary interest
from the advertisers' point of view in having
a Home Furnishings columnist.
A: They used to think that. I don't know why
they don't work more on that now. They don't
have much in the way of home [homemaking
news], any type, even food. One day a week
for food. We used to have it every day in
both the Register and Tribune.
Q: Implicitly, though, you are whetting the
appetites of your readers and they, in turn,
will think, "Gosh, I can be that way and I
will go and buy that dress. Or that sofa. Or
I will buy groceries from Des Moines
venders."
A: That was the theory years ago. But, now,
they don't seem to think it is newsworthy. At
least, they don't use much.
Q: Or, has the paper just become more news
instead of these other ancillary sections?
A: I notice the feature section, called the
Today section, a great deal of it is
entertainment and movies. Night clubs.
Whatever. TV programs.
Q: They don't add revenue to the Younkers and
the other stores that would sell the
merchandise that you ultimately write about?
I am posing the question to you because I
don't have the answer and I thought you might
have the answer. With all the color
capabilities papers have today that they did
not have when you were a reporter, you could
really have some strong visuals that would go
along with good writing about home
furnishings, about fashion. So, why isn't it
out there anymore?
A: It is partly that a lot of people don't
write about it. It isn't something that a lot
of writers are interested in. But I think it
is mostly the top editors don't think there
is reader interest.
Q: Is it because top editors aren't women?
A: The top editor at the Register now is a
woman, but she may not be interested in home
furnishings. She may be career oriented. I
don't know. It just gradually drifted off. I
thought when I quit, there was another young
woman there who was very interested in doing
Home Furnishings, but they haven't let her do
much.
Class member: The Chicago Tribune has a
women's news sections there, plus a Home
Furnishings. They do a lot of coverage.
A: And they get a lot of ads in it, too.
Q: So what is the story? What is the reason?
MMB; Maybe it is just a local thing. Maybe it
is just the Register. But home furnishings
everywhere isn't as well covered as it used
to be. When I first started going to the
market, every newspaper had a reporter there.
And every homemaking magazine. They would
have a whole crew. Better Homes and Gardens
would send a dozen people. Now, there is just
a few newspapers and a few magazines show up. --
Section 4: Q: Did you ever get into trouble for writing
a consumer's story. For example, writing a
story about what to look for in a quality
sofa?
A: Yes, I did. Not in real trouble, but I was
writing about Flexsteel furniture and said,
"All of their furniture has this special type
of spring." It came out in Better Homes and
Gardens, matter of fact, and got a letter
saying they don't have it in all their
furniture. So, I called the PR person who
gave me in the information who was a friend
of mine and she said, "Yeah. It is in
everything." I said, "In your sleep sofas?"
"Oh, no. Not in our sleep sofas." All we
could do was apologize to Flexsteel. Better
Homes and Gardens didn't run a correction on
it or anything. And they didn't...they kept
using my stories. But, obviously, if you did
that very often, you would be out.
Q: Nowadays, there are a lot of consumer
stories. How you can dress the way the stars
dress and pay only a fraction of what they
pay. How to buy things. How to buy a car.
That ultimately, advertisers don't like. Was
that part of your purview. Doing those kinds
of stories that would help consumers?
A: That was all I did for Better Homes and
Gardens. How to buy a sofa, what to look for.
Or a water bed. Or a this or that. I called a
lot of manufacturers and researched it
because I was afraid I would have things
wrong. In that magazine, if you had something
wrong, you heard about it. They would get
letters from other manufacturers.
Q: What about the Register? Did you do those
kinds of stories?
A: Not too many. It was mostly what is new
and what was shown at the market and what was
available in the stores and local homes.
Q: Did you ever call attention to
manufacturers that consumers should avoid?
A: No.
Q: Why not?
A: I think I didn't think I knew enough about
it. And, actually, we would write about
things to avoid, like baby beds that weren't
safe. But I don't think we used names for
fear of lawsuits probably.
Q: When you said baby beds to avoid, did you
ever get any flak about that?
A: No. Occasionally, I would get letters on
something that someone would think was wrong.
Maybe it was, but usually it wasn't. I was
usually right. I think we were very careful
about lawsuits in those days and we just
didn't use names.
Q: It wasn't a Consumer's Report?
A: No, we weren't backing things. --
Section 5: Class member: When you went out to do a story
and you needed a photographer, how did that
work? Did you ask someone? Did you take the
pictures yourself? Did you have a
photographer in your area?
A: We had a crew of photographers and you
would usually go out together. I know a lot
of papers don't. They get the story first and
then they send the photographer out. But I
used to always go with the photographer.
Class member: It was a crew photographer on
the paper. There was not one that usually
worked exclusively for you.
A: Usually, there were a few that liked doing
Home Furnishings or liked going out with
various reporters. I liked it better if I got
one of those because they would see my
viewpoint. They would take a picture of what
I was going to write about, which was really
what I wanted.
Class member: What was the process of
learning something about the newsroom
process? Who developed a story idea? You
would go out and do the story. Someone would
write the story. What happened to the story
then?
A: In those days, it was edited by hand. Now,
of course, it is by...the women's editor in
our department or the various editors. Now,
it is all done on the computers, of course.
And they would confer with me to see which
pictures I thought were the best to
illustrate the story. They worked pretty
closely with their reporters.
Class member: Then where did the story go
from there?
A: In those days, it went to the composing
room where they sent it on the linotype. Then
they would get a proof of it, a galley proof.
Then, they would lay out the page and use it.
Now, it is completely different.
Class member: So, in other words, your
department was very autonomous. There was not
a male editor who ruled all of that. Called -
The Editor.
A: In later years, when I was just writing
Home Furnishings, the editors were men. They
had a succession of three or four men editors
during those years.
Class member: In the department?
A: The department wasn't Society by then. It
was Feature department, really. And I was
offered that job at one time when I came back
to work, but not at the same salary as the
men. I did more. And I wanted to stay with
the Home Furnishings.
Q: How could you...what did you say when you
found out the preceding employee's salary was
so different from yours? How could
management get away with that?
A: I don't think I knew it when he offered me
the job and told me what I would get. I don't
think I knew what the other man was getting.
But I didn't want it anyway, so I didn't make
a fuss about it, of course. There was
discrimination against women for a long, long
time. Not exactly, just in the money deal.
Class member: How many stories did you do a
week?
A: We did a lot in those days. One every day
including Sunday. In the Feature section, we
did both the Register and the Tribune. In the
rest of the news section, there were separate
staffs. I would have two or three in each
daily paper, different days, and then one on
Sunday.
Class member: I didn't know there was that
much to report about furnishings.
A: We made it up. [laughs]
Class member: That is an incredible amount.
A: They wouldn't be very long stories,
necessarily. But, pictures and [we would]
have a food story in every day in both the
Register and Tribune. [We had two] different
food writers.
Q: Did you have a kitchen in the Register?
A: No. We didn't do any testing. We just used
recipes. Both food editors were home ec
graduates and would do a lot of testing at
home. --
Section 6: Class member: How much competition was there
between the Tribune and the Register, between
those departments?
A: There wasn't any in ours.
Class member: Did you work together?
A: Yes, very much. In fact, the same girl
[woman] might lay out all the pages for both
papers. But there was competition in the
newsroom. Scooping each other and things like
that. But, we didn't get into that.
Class member: Do you know any women at the
Register currently and, if you do, what do
they say about the Gannett companies? The
gossip now.
A: A friend of mine who has worked there for
years just went over to Ameritas [Life
Insurance and Investment Corporation] because
she was unhappy there. Another one is
unhappy. I don't think it is with the salary.
I think it is mostly with the attitude. They
don't feel appreciated. And I think that is
true. Not just the women, but the men there.
Q: Did you get Christmas presents when the
Cowles family owned the paper?
A: We always got a bonus. I can't remember
what it was. Probably a percentage of your
salary, I think it was in those days. I don't
think they do now, though. I am not sure. I
seldom hear anybody is delighted at working
in the newsroom now, of the friends I have
there.
Q: I have got an overall question. Your
husband was a sports writer and editor. Dealt
with words. You deal with words. Your
youngest son is a very well-known writer.
A: Actually, he has written two books about
words.
Q: I loved the book Lost Continent. And all
of his free lance work. And your grandson
works for the Waterloo Courier. This is a
family that is built around words. How have
words, how have being merchants of words,
changed this family? It is now three
generations. Talk about that. Some people
sell shoes. You are, essentially, selling
words. That is what your livelihood has been.
A: Actually, I think the children and
grandchildren drifted into the work more
because they got jobs there. As copy boys,
copy girls. My daughter isn't in journalism.
And George Mills, for instance, gathered up
all the part-timers in the sports department,
including my son and his son, and gave them
short courses in everything when he was
working there and they were working. So, just
from being in the newsroom, they got bitten.
Q: That was something Mills talked about. The
perks. Under the Cowles, the Cowles would
guarantee your kids jobs in the newsroom as
copy boys.
A: Yes. Every kid in the newsroom was a child
of somebody in the newsroom.
Q: It was that which instigated this love for
words?
TAPE TWO, SIDE ONE
A: ...to become doctors. I think it kind of
perpetuates itself.
Q: Families of doctors might talk of medicine
at home. Did you talk about stories at home?
You and your husband.
A: Yes. And, I think we had discussions
around the dinner table about grammar and
books more, maybe, than you might if you were
more interested in bookkeeping.
Q: Do you have a couple of favorite authors?
A: Leon Uris, I think is one of my most
favorites. And I am a mystery fan.
Class member: There must have been a lot of
newspaper reading in your family, too?
Besides the obvious? What else did you read?
A: Well, we always took the New York Times.
And, for quite a while, the Los Angeles Times
because we had a friend on that staff and it
was a good paper. And news magazines, too, I
think you tend to read if you are in the
business. And sports magazines. And home
decorating magazines, of course.
Q: Your poor postman. [laughs]
Class member: Could you give us some advice,
especially for women going into journalism?
What do they need to know?
A: I think it is a good idea to specialize in
something these days. Perhaps it always was.
Become more knowledgeable in one field.
Politics or sports or...we need medical
writers desperately.
Q: It is interesting to hear you say that
because you were a specialist. And the
conventional wisdom is that it is one of
these jobs where you have got to know a
little bit about everything.
A: I think you need that, too. But, I think
the ones that make the money and get to the
top are usually the specialists. George Mills
was the top political writer in the state.
Q: So, learn a lot about one thing, but also
learn a little bit about everything. But have
one area that...
A: And if there is something you are very
interesting in, why you would just naturally
work in that field, I think. My husband was
never interested in anything but sports as a
career. So, it worked out great for him. He
was baseball crazy all his life.
Q: I keep on coming back to this. You were
interested in the finer things, home
furnishings. And your husband was interested
in sports. What does that make me think of -
the Odd Couple. Your husband is Felix and you
are Tony Randall. [laughs]
A: He was interested in a lot of other
things, too. Actually, everybody thought he
was the..I have people still say to me,
"Where did your son get all that talent? Oh,
from Bill. Oh, from your husband." I always
want to say, "Well, from me, too." [laughs]
But he was always interested in words and
word derivations and I think he instilled
that in the children.
Q: But you never had to check your husband's
pants to make sure they had no spots on them
before he could sit down like on the new
couch you had? [laughs]
A: No. When you have three rambunctious
children, you don't worry too much about
spots.
Q: A couple more questions.
A: Let's see if I covered everything. I think
we hit everything here that you mentioned.
Newspaper lingo. I have examples of a dying
language. -30- at the end of a story is no
longer used.
Q: Are you proud of your career? If you could
have done it all over again, are you proud
that you stayed at the Register?
A: Oh, yes. Because I quit before Gannett
bought it. I worked, as George Mills says, in
the "good years." I always thought it was
fun. I always looked forward to going to
work.
Q: Thank you very much.
