Section 1:
Q: You talked about some of these
technology changes that you'd seen over the
years, that being one of them. What other
things did you see between that and the
computer?
A: Like I say, we had some machinery that
we had to lug around that we operated
ourselves. But there again, we still had to
type it onto a sheet of paper. And then,
there was something that we plugged in and it
was on rollers and then it would get
transferred and it would appear at the
Register hopefully. You hoped it would
appear there. We had a couple different
versions of that before we finally went to an
early computer, which was put out by a big
company now, Radio Shack and then now they've
gone to a pretty sophisticated computer
operation. That's the reason I had to learn
how to use a computer was because we started
using them in our business.
Q: Try and remember some of the people
that you worked with, too. I mean, we've
talked about Sec Taylor and Layton Haush. Of
course, Frank Eyerly was there at the time
that you were there.
A: Managing editor, right. Frank didn't
care much about sports. But you better not
make any mistakes. He better not hear that
there was a mistake made because then all
hell would break loose. He wanted to make
sure that the sports department was run
smoothly as long as he didn't have to worry
about it. Eyerly was a very, very efficient
newspaper guy. I had a lot of respect for
him. We didn't have that much to do with
him, because he, like I say, didn't pay
attention to sports, but I respected him
because he wanted to put out a strong product
and he did.
Q: Your direct supervisor was who,
Layton?
A: Layton Haush, yes. And I liked
Haush. They'd kid about him a lot, as a lot
of employees talk about the boss. It goes on
every place, but Haush was in the twilight of
his career when I came to the Register. I
got to know him pretty well and we always
thought that we should discuss things with
Haush early in the day because by 4:00, he
was kind of dozing off back in a cubby hole
back there, which was regarded as an office.
But he'd done the crossword puzzle and then
he was kind of [shows sleepy], his eye lids
were getting a little heavy. So you had to
get your business out of the way early in the
day with him because he was nearing
retirement age. Despite all the kidding that
they used to give him, he was a very good
newspaper guy and knew a good newspaper story
when he saw it. I owe a lot of what I
accomplished there to Haush.
Q: Can you remember any antidotes about
any of these personalities? People like
Haush or Eyerly or John Turnbull for that
matter.
A: I wasn't there on some of them and I
heard the story second-hand, but there again,
it's too good a story to not repeat. Haush
used to bring his lunch to work for some
period. I think he was working nights then,
too, because he had gone through the steps of
the ladder. He started out on the copy desk.
He never wanted to be a reporter, didn't
want to be a writer, but was a good writer.
He did cover some football games, but he
didn't want to do that full time. But some
period when he was working at night and they
knew on the desk that he always brought a
hard-boiled egg to work with him as part of
his lunch. So somebody on that desk got the
bright idea to replace that hard-boiled egg
with an egg that wasn't boiled, just fresh
out of the refrigerator and put that in his
lunch sack. They knew about what time Haush
was going to eat his lunch, so it was time to
have lunch and Haush got his egg and was
about ready to peel it - and you knew what
happened with that raw egg! All of the
sudden, you could hear from the back of that
office, "God Dammit, Betty!" He thought his
wife put that raw egg in there. [hearty
laughter]. So, they always played some
little tricks on him and I don't know if Bob
Price had anything to do with that trick or
not, but it could have been. I'm not sure.
Q: It would have been worth having a
video camera for that, huh?
A: It would have been fun! I would have
liked to have been there, as long as he
wasn't going to blame me for it. --
Section 2:
Q: This is kind of a general question,
too. What do you think it is that makes a
great sports writer? What are the qualities
that a sports writer needs to have?
A: You got to have an inquisitive mind.
You have to want to ask questions. You can't
be afraid to ask questions. You have to want
to be able to write a good story. You have
to know your material. You can't go
unprepared. You have to be ready to ask the
tough questions and you have to be a little
bit aware of what kind of story it is that
you're going to write about. You have to sit
there and just be persistent whether you're
at a game or whether you're interviewing
somebody and you know that this is going to
be - you want to make that the best story-
your goal is to make that the best story of
the day. Whether it turns out to be that
way, you don't know. But in your mind, this
is going to be the best story that is going
to be in that newspaper.
Q: Of course, there is a real difference
between doing the research, going out and
getting the story - I guess what you'd call
reporting, and then writing it. I mean, some
people are great writers, some people are
great reporters. I guess you have to be a
little of both.
A: Yes, you do. It doesn't necessarily
take a great writer. You don't have to be
Grainland Rice to write a good sports story.
But being able to put words in the proper
order and to make them flow, certainly helps.
I saw a lot of both at the Register. Bill
Bryson was a great wordsmith. He was a
different kind of guy, but Bill could really
weave a great story. But a guy like Tony
Ferdaro was what I would call a tremendous
light man. He was a great reporter. He'd
get stuff but somebody else usually had to
write it for him. That's why the copy desk
was there, because Tony was not a wordsmith.
He would sit there and kind of butcher it up,
but once you got him - Tony was a guy that
you might as well have him call it into to
you, because it would be in rough form and
you could put together a pretty good story
that way. But both type of guys worked.
Both approaches worked. Bill would do a
great job with writing, a tremendous
wordsmith. Tony would get the stuff and then
somebody else would put it together for him.
Q: Were you better at one side of it than
the other?
A: I tried to do both. I tried to make
it as pretty as I could. And yet, I tried to
do a good reporting job, too. Some stories
I'm prouder of than others. But I always
tried to do the best I could with both ends
of the gun.
Q: How did you get the nickname King?
A: I don't know where Price got that.
He started it. I didn't mind it. There are
a lot of things that I could have been called
that I wasn't. Price, I think, had names for
everybody. I don't know if Buck Turnbull
told you this or not, but his nickname,
Price's nickname for him was Beev. They
called him Beaver. Bucky Turnbull and he
suddenly became Beev. We used to have a guy
named Harold Yagolin. He was on the desk and
Price, for some reason, started calling him
Foo Yag Lin. Then he became just Foo. He
had a nickname for everybody! I don't know
how Price got the nicknames, but King I could
put up with.
Q: Did anyone else call you King?
A: Nah, just Price. In fact, Price is
still living. He retired in Florida. But I
liked Price and I don't think anybody else -
I didn't want to be called King by anybody
else. If Price said it, that was fine. --
Section 3:
Q: How about pay? What did you start at
when you were hired as copy editor?
A: I started at the Register at $85.00 a
week. They told me I would get a raise in a
short amount of time. Of course, the guy
who starts at $85.00 a week, the short amount
of time is always longer than what he would
like to think. Finally, I got a raise to
$100 a week, but it took longer than I really
wanted it to.
Q: Was that a boost from what you were
getting at Albert Lea?
A: I made about $80-85 - no it wasn't,
it really wasn't. But I worked more hours at
Albert Lea. I was at about $85.00 a week at
Albert Lea but I knew I would make more at
the paper than I would ever at Albert Lea, so
I had to kind of snuff it up and go ahead and
take the job because I knew things would work
out better for me at the Register.
Q: What about working conditions at the
Register? The hours were good and benefits?
A: Hours were good. Benefits were
always pretty good. Once they started
getting the pay up there to where it wasn't
what you would call a starvation wage, things
got better. Benefits were always real good.
I thought the vacation plan was always good,
but the health insurance plan was always
good. I never had complaints about the
benefits.
Q: I heard from some of the other ones
that the building was really hot in the
summertime.
A: Was that before air conditioning or
what?
Q: Yes. I suppose so.
A: Maybe so. That didn't bother me. I
know we had to leave the building because of
a fire alarm a couple of time, but I don't
remember being hot. I didn't have any
problem with the temperature of the building.
Q: You also had mentioned that they were
trying to get the guild in the '70s. Was
there another attempt to get the guild in the
sixties?
A: Could have been. I'm not sure when
those movements started. Maybe the first
movement started in the late sixties. I know
it got pretty feverish in those times that
they wanted a guild. I wasn't ever sure how
I stood on that. I could see the argument of
getting the guild was that they would improve
wages. But I guess at that time I wasn't
really that upset with the wage structure as
it was. I didn't have any strong feelings
one way or the other. I did go to some of
the meetings and I did listen to both sides.
I think I voted against the guild when I did
vote because I really wasn't that upset.
Q: Besides the fact that they wanted to
get the wage hike, was there any other
grievances they had?
A: I suppose, if I remember correctly -
it was a while back - I'm sure that they were
upset about the hours that people had to work
and probably weren't being paid overtime.
But that's a thing that they are still upset
with at the Register. I think overtime is
always a source of discontent. If you have
to work beyond 40 hours and into 55 hours a
week, you expect to be paid for it and not
always did you get paid for it, especially as
a reporter. You might have to do a couple of
hours of work at home because you had to do
some interviewing over the telephone or in
person that just couldn't get done during
hours at the paper. You were never paid for
those hours. You just knew that wasn't going
to take place. I think that people just
wanted to be paid for, pretty much, for as
many hours as they put in. That just wasn't
taking place in those days, and probably
still. --
Section 4:
Q: Also, try to recall the times that you
were moved from the copy desk to the sports
reporter, to the beat reporting you were
doing on the sports desk and stuff. What was
the sequence of events? How did that happen?
Did you make a pitch that said you wanted to
be a reporter?
A: Sure. In my reviews, I told Haush
that I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to
cover games.
Q: Did you tell him that at all your
reviews?
A: Sure, I probably had been saying
that. That's the way the groundwork was for
something like that. You can't just say all
of the sudden, I want to start now to be a
reporter. Haush knew I wanted to be a
reporter. I made it known. And I wasn't
coming from ground zero then. In 1961 - when
I came to the paper in '59 - I somehow
inherited the bowling beat. I knew nothing
about bowling. I wasn't in any league or
anything. But the guy I preceded on the
desk, Ed Alseen, had been the bowling writer.
In the ABC tournament, the big national
tournament, was going to be held in Des
Moines in 1962 so they kind of groomed for
that when I worked on the desk. And I wrote
a weekly bowling column. It's come and gone.
Nobody writes bowling there now.
Q: What do you write about in a bowling
story?
A: You have to interview the bowlers. I
always felt the bowlers were some of the more
interesting people I talked to. I did one
story about a guy who got a bowling ball out
of somebody's garbage and cleaned it all up
and went out and won the city tournament or
something. Bowlers were characters. They
were guys that had funny stories to tell all
the time. And I got to report on those
people and I had fun doing it. So I did
cover the ABC Bowling Tournaments, five days
a week, then somebody else did it the other
two days a week, as it was being held in Des
Moines. So they knew that I could write. So
when the time came for the need to bring on a
new reporter, I was there. I was ready. As
it turns out - and I didn't replace Sec
Taylor, but I replaced after Sec died. Sec
died at spring training in 1965, I think,
March of '65. So I took that spot among the
writers after Sec died. I pretty much knew
that summer that I was going to get to be a
reporter. I took Sec's spot on the reporting
staff so I started in the fall of 1965
covering games. That's how that all took
place. I was on the writing staff forever
after that.
Q: What did they offer you as salary?
A: Oh, I just stayed on the salary I was
on, whatever it was at that time. It didn't
change that. In fact, I heard a story the
other day where we suddenly advanced to 2001,
that somebody who just left the Register now,
left the reporting staff. They tried to talk
him into going back to being a copy desk
person and they were going to pay him
$16,000.00 more to be on the desk than he was
as a reporter. They think highly of people
on the desk. So in this guy's case, you
would have made more money as a copy desk
person than you would as a reporter.
Q: That wasn't the case though, back when
you were doing it?
A: No, I didn't think so. We didn't go
around comparing paychecks or anything, but I
think you made more as a reporter than you
did as a copy desk person.
Q: Of course, you can see the importance
of a copy editor. But still, you've got to
have the story.
A: Yes, you've got to have the story.
It takes some teamwork to get that story in
there. --
Section 5:
Q: A question for you, explaining it to a
lay person, but what is it do you think the
journalistic principle of objectivity? How
is the idea of journalistic objectivity
relevant to sports reporting?
A: You always want the reader to think
that you were on nobody's team. You were
working for the newspaper first of all.
Sure, it made it easier if the team you were
covering, whether that's Iowa or Iowa State,
or Drake or whoever it was you were covering,
made it an easier story to write if that team
won, but you weren't going to go out and
slash your wrists if they lost. You owed
your story to the newspaper. That's really
all that matters. You would do what you had
to do, to do the interviews. You had to
afterward, to make sure you had a good
story, but you wrote that story fairly. You
also wanted to get, if Iowa was playing Iowa
State, you wanted to write that story fairly.
You wanted to have quotes from the Iowa
State coach. You wanted quotes from the Iowa
coach. You wanted things from the Iowa
players and the Iowa State players. You
tried to be as fair as you could.
Q: But of course your readership at the
Des Moines Register is the State of Iowa. If
Iowa State is playing Oklahoma, is your story
going to be tilted towards - I mean, if the
Cyclones win, is your story going to be
tilted to reveling in the fact that they won,
beating Oklahoma?
A: I tried to not make it that way. I
guess if I knew my story would be read in the
state of Iowa and I knew that players from
the state of Iowa were on that team, but I
tried to not tilt it one way or the other. I
tried to be as fair as I could.
Q: After all the experience you've had as
a writer and reporter with the Des Moines
Register, what kind of advice would you give
a budding sports reporter? If they wanted to
be a success?
A: There again, I would say don't worry
about studying journalism. Journalism school
is fine, but get a good liberal education
first of all. Be as smart as you can. Don't
leave any stone unturned, yet get background
and get history and psychology and geography.
Make sure you know people. Know the thing
you're writing about, the sports. You got to
know a little bit about the sports you're
covering, but also know what makes people
tick. There is no substitute for education.
Just be as smart as you can and learn how to
treat people fairly and reasonably. Then you
have a chance to become a pretty good
reporter. --
Section 6:
Q: In getting back to the beat that you
had between '65 and '99, how much flexibility
did you have in covering the stories that you
wanted to cover? Were you assigned a beat?
A: It was different in the early years.
We didn't have a so-called beat system. We
didn't stay with one team, like in football
we didn't stay with Iowa or Iowa State. One
week we might cover Iowa and the next week,
we might cover Iowa State and the week after
that, we might cover Notre Dame to make it a
change of pace. But later in my career, they
hired people as editors who wanted you to
stay with one team. Don't switch off. Also,
that way they knew you had a responsibility.
They knew that there was someone they could
call if something happened with that team,
that could pursue the sources that needed to
be pursued and could write the story the
right way. I saw advantage to both. I kind
of liked it when we covered Iowa one week,
Iowa State the next. It gave you a fresh
perspective. It was kind of tough if you had
to stick with that Iowa team that went 0-11.
And the Iowa State team that went 0-10-1,
under Jim Walden. But I could see it both
ways. I maybe lean more towards wanting to
have a fresh perspective, covering various
teams throughout the year, but they don't do
it that way any more.
Q: How many sports reporters were in the
department, along with yourself?
A: We would have had Buck, we would have
had Morrie White, Bill Bryson. In the early
years, Bert McGrain, Tony Ferdaro and guys
who covered high school games, so there were
probably 7, 8, 9, 10 people who covered
games.
Q: And you guys were busy then?
A: Always busy. We always had something
going on .
Q: Don Ultang talked about the fact that
the Register had the airplane that they flew
around. Did you have an opportunity to fly
on the plane?
A: Not with Altan's plane. The Register
did not have its own plane by the time I
started. They were doing some work with a
charter air company at the airport. We would
ride small planes out, maybe with a
photographer and do a story and then come
back and land the plane and go back to the
office to write it. I think that story I did
at Atunnel was done that way. I think we
flew a small plane down there. Larry Knee
was on there with a pilot that didn't work
for the Register. But I didn't have the
benefit of working there when Ultang was
flying a plane.
Q: Was the idea that the plane could get
back to the Register fast?
A: Yes, right.
Q: Why would you write the story in the
field and send it back to them, as some
people did, with Western Union.
A: That's what it became. It didn't
last long. These planes kind of went their
own way. I think it cost too much money to
finally keep it going, so they changed the
system. --
Section 7:
Q: I can't actually remember where we
left off. So let's go ahead and pick up with
some of the people that you worked with as
sport editor. Maybe you can talk about your
experiences with them.
A: Sure. Of course, we talked about
Layton Haush and I had a lot of respect for
him. I had a number of good sports editors.
The last good one I worked with was Dave
Whitkey. Dave had a strong, strong newspaper
background. He, at one time was the
Register's managing editor. He had worked
on, I think, probably city editor before
that. Just a tremendous person. A very good
newspaper guy but a tremendous person. I
always enjoyed talking about the newspaper
business and I still try to have coffee with
Dave every once in a while, now that I'm
retired. He's back - you talk about copy
desk - he's back on the news copy desk at the
Register now, after being sports editor for I
don't know how many years, maybe 5-6-7 years,
he came to be our sports editor and was just
a very fair person, believed in putting out a
strong product and always did, but he ran
into some situations at the paper that he
didn't want to get tangled up in, I think.
The Register management wanted him to do some
things that he didn't want to do. And I
think that involved tightening the screws
again, maybe with the budget and doing some
things with people that he didn't want to do.
I always joked about Dave. Dave did a
number of my yearly reviews and I'm a little
older than Dave and it was getting to the
point where I would retire and I knew he
wouldn't be far after. I said, "Dave, just
do me one favor." I said, "Just stay a
sports editor until I get out of here!" He
said, "I'll try!" He didn't quite make it,
unfortunately. But he was a tremendous news
person, still is. I hated to see him leave
the sports department because Dave was the
first to tell you that he wasn't a guy that
was going to go out to a lot of college
football games and sit there and watch them.
But he was a good news person and he enjoyed
putting out a newsy sports section. He did a
great job as far as I was concerned and I
really thought he got screwed by the
management, but I'm glad he's still there,
helping to put out the product.
Q: What were the circumstances where he
got screwed by the management?
A: Well, like I say, I think they wanted
him to make these changes to maybe make
budget changes. Dave didn't want to do that.
I don't think Dave - I'm speaking for him
here, but -
Tape Two Side One
Q: You say that they wanted him to make
some cuts. Are you talking about lay-offs?
A: No, not lay-offs. I think budget
things and maybe changing the emphasis of
some of the things they wanted to cover at
the paper. I think they wanted him to ride
people harder. And Dave wasn't the kind of
guy who did that. Dave was the kind of guy
who managed a department and he knew that he
was managing class people and he left them
alone. He let them do their job. In the
present regime down there, I don't think
that's the way they want their managers to
operate. They want their managers to ride
the people hard. That's part of the problem
of the present situation there. The person
has kind of slipped into the background and
the company is the only important thing and
making money, like I said earlier, the bottom
line is the only thing Gannett is interested
in. That's the only important thing these
days and it's an unfortunate thing. I'll
bring up another situation here, speaking of
some of the upper management at the paper,
there was another legendary - oh, legendary
is not too strong a word to use - Morrie
White, who was a long-time columnist at the
paper and I worked with him and Morrie had
some faults but he was basically a very, very
good writer and a very, very good newspaper
person. He wrote a pretty good column. I
had my problems with him at times, everybody
did, but anyway, Morrie was a guy who never
wanted to leave the paper. He got to a
certain age. I think he was in his seventies
already, still writing a column, the main
sports column and they were trying to get, as
Gannett wanted, a newer face in there. They
were trying to kind of move Morrie around and
not have him be the prime columnist. They
got that accomplished. They finally moved
Morrie to one of the back pages and then he
started writing less and less. But he was
always at the paper. The paper was his whole
life. Even in retirement, even in his late
seventies and I think he finally died at 80
or 81, maybe 80. He was still coming to the
paper virtually every day, he was there. I
wasn't there the day he died.
Q: This was recent?
A: Just in the last two years. I think
it was May of 1999. He collapsed in the
newsroom. Suffered a massive stroke.
Whether he died in the newsroom or not, I
don't know. But they took him to the
emergency room and he later died at the
hospital. Larry Lammer and I wrote the
obituary for him. That appeared on page one.
That was one sports story that would make
page one. For one thing, I heard this second
hand, but a top editor at the paper, with
this crowd hovering around Morrie, who was
lying on the floor of the newsroom, this guy
stepped over Morrie and went back up toward
his office and said to somebody, "Who's that
old guy laying on the floor?" The guy didn't
even know Morrie White! I can not believe
that! This guy hadn't been there that long,
but you'd think just by accident he would at
least know who the Register's number one
sport columnist had been because he was in
the office every day. That was just a
terrible exhibition. But that's just the way
it is these days. --
Section 8:
Q: Also, did you work with Joanne
Boeckman?
A: I did, yes. Another legendary figure,
you're right. Joanne retired just before I
did. There will never be another Joanne
Boeckman. She was an unbelievable movie
critic. She covered the arts. She did book
reviews. She went to the Guthrie Theatre in
Minneapolis. The Register has ceased doing
things like that ever since Becky retired and
it's another big, big major loss. The
Register no longer has its own movie
reviewer, no longer covers the major plays.
TV and music reviews are gone. And Boecky
did a lot of that and was a real heavyweight.
If you ever saw her office, I mean, there
were books all over the place, films, TV
things. It was just a mess but she was a
wonderful worker. They tried to replace her
with young people. And here again, here are
the young people who left maybe a year or two
after they got these jobs, left and one took
a job in Minneapolis and the other one, at
St. Paul. Maybe both went to Minneapolis and
the sports writer went to St. Paul. But
they've ceased trying to even do local movie
reviews because they found out they can't
keep anybody there to do it and they can't
replace Boecky. The legend writer is gone
too. They haven't replaced him. So it's
just a skeleton of what it used to be.
Q: These young people, what? They're on
career tracks, I guess, and want more money.
Are they not paying people enough money there
at the Register?
A: I'm pretty sure they make more money
at Minneapolis and St. Paul because those are
guild papers. And the old Gannett way is to
get by as cheaply as possible. Don't pay you
anything. I quit asking questions about
this, but I understand that they try to get
these kids right out of school very cheaply
now. They just don't give them any money.
Maybe if they stay there a few years, they'll
be up to a decent wage, but most of the time,
it's indecent, I guess.
Q: Now you were there for about fourteen
years of Gannett ownership, from about '85
until '99. Did all this stuff just happen
immediately in 1985? Or was it kind of
gradually phased in, in the way they decided
what their priorities were of how they
operated a paper?
A: We always wondered how soon it would
start. It didn't start right away. They
kept those people on board who had been there
under the old ownership, but then Charlie
Edwards, the publisher, was pretty much
bounced out of that job and Gannett moved in
its own person.
Q: Charlie Edwards was a member of the
Cowles family by marriage, is that correct?
A: Right. You could tell then that
changes were going to be made. Once Charlie
was gone then a lot of different things took
place. You just never knew. You came to
expect that nothing good was going to happen.
I still think that's the feeling there, is
that there is some people who may stay for a
while, but most of them are looking for a
better job, because they just don't trust
Gannett. And I don't trust them either. I
could see the thing going down the tubes in
my final years there.
Q: Were you looking for another job?
A: No. Not at that stage. I just
wanted to get some more things done that I
wanted to do. I wanted to see if Iowa State
could win a few football games and get out of
there as best I could. I don't know if there
will be too many people who make it forty
years or not, down the road. Sometimes I
wonder how I made it. In most of my years, I
was happy. I've got to say that. There were
some frustrations, but most of the time, I
was happy. --
Section 9:
Q: I want to take you back again, to those
years where you described it was your
happiest, from '65 to '85. When the Register
and the Tribune were both two real thriving
papers, it still intrigues me as to how they
could operate under one company in the same
building and still have the intense
competition between them. Can you talk about
that competition between the Register and the
Tribune?
A: Yes, those were fun times. The
Tribune was a good paper. I read it all the
time. We took it at home. It was good
competition for the Register. It was really
interesting. A very interesting thing as far
as I was concerned was that my brother worked
for the Tribune, my younger brother.
Q: Who was?
A: Phil. He passed away in 1993, but he
was a Tribune reporter and I was a Register
reporter, so in a way, we were competing for
the same stories for a different paper. So
we used to have a friendly time doing all
that kind of thing, but I had a lot of
respect for the Tribune. It was kind of a
feature paper, but they tried hard to get
hard news in the paper, too, and often times
did. Sometimes they used to beat the
Register. If they would have a good story,
say on Monday afternoon. In the old days, it
was a pm paper. Well, then the Register
would likely pick that story up for the early
editions on Tuesday morning. So the Tribune
version of the story would go into Iowa City
and Cedar Rapids. Or, it could be done a
different way. The Register reporter might
take a look at that whole picture, write his
or her own story, and have a fresh version.
But the Tribune was a great paper. I hated
to see it die. But I know that pm papers are
few and far between.
Q: But the Tribune stories could go
verbatim in to the Register's paper, what
you're saying, the next morning.
A: Yes. They would get credit for it.
It would say, "by Sam Smith, Tribune
reporter." Because the competition wasn't
all that hard-nosed either. When I was
writing for the Register's sports pages, I
often would write a so-called follow, a next
day follow, for the Tribune. Like if I was
covering a Minnesota Vikings game, back in
the days when we still covered them, I would
write on Sunday afternoon, I would write my
Register story for Monday morning and then
for the Tribune, I would write another
version of the story, just to help them out.
It didn't bother me to have my story in the
Tribune. In fact, it kind of made me happy.
We would do that with games where there was
no Tribune reporter. If there was a Tribune
reporter, you liked it because then you
didn't have to work as hard. But there
wasn't the clear cut rivalry between the two
papers in sports.
Q: I've heard otherwise in the news
department, where there was, of really going
for stories the other one didn't have.
Apparently that was healthy.
A: Sure, it kept you on your toes. The
only thing that keeps people on their toes
now, with no pm paper is 6 PM. news on TV.
Then, if they break a story, well, they got
it first obviously. But then the Register
has to scramble around to try to find a
version that they can put in the paper the
next morning.
Q: So that's what is happening when you
think of the changes that we've seen, is that
we're competing with other media types
instead of another paper.
A: Sure. That's certainly got a lot to
do with it. I think all of us realized that
TV can't do the same type of reporting that a
newspaper can. They don't have the time. TV
sports is what? Two and a half minutes, I
guess. My old buddy Ron Jonder used to tell
me a newspaper guy can spend four hours
writing a story, but TV is definitely
competitive for newspapers and has changed
the way newspapers operate because you've got
to try to get the story behind the story,
when you work for the newspaper. You can't
just go with the nuts and bolts stuff,
because that's already been on TV. --
Section 10:
Q: When things were happening in '85, did
you see the writing on the wall? I mean,
when they were going to change and make it a
buy out with Cowles?
A: I didn't know what to expect. You
kept hearing horror stories that bad things
were going to happen. But they didn't happen
right away.
Q: My question is, prior to the change of
ownership, did you see that there was going
to be a buy-out beforehand?
A: Yes, we were hearing rumors. And
then there was that bidding that was going
on. Several prospective owners made bids.
And the Cowles family, I think, wanted out, I
mean, obviously. I try to explain it by,
"You may be in a business, and it's important
to the parents, but to these kids it isn't
quite so important." The money is important
to the kids. The family didn't want to
continue in the newspaper business and
somebody wanted the money. You can't blame
them for that. So once that became evident,
it looked like we were going to have new
owners. You just hoped it would be the right
one. In my opinion, it's too bad that it
turned out to be the owner it did. But they
know how to make money - for themselves.
Q: Down at the level you folks were, the
employees in the newsroom, were there
feelings of discontent or fear?
A: I think apprehension. I'd say
apprehension. Then, when Gannett did buy the
paper, well then, there were probably some
fears, some real, genuine fears because then
you could talk to people who work at other
Gannett papers and find out what they've done
there. Then you say, okay, it's going to
happen at our place, too. I wonder how soon
it will be before the heads start rolling?
It took a little while, but heads began
rolling after that.
Q: What do you think of the paper now?
Today?
A: It doesn't hold a candle to what it
was like when it was in its heyday, back in
those days with the 500,000 Sunday
circulation. Like I said, they've cut back
so much. And I think it has been ordered by
Gannett, closing all those bureaus. It's
become a local paper. They don't compete
anymore with Iowa City or Cedar Rapids. It's
nothing in Cedar Rapids or Dubuque or
Davenport. It's just a Des Moines paper.
It's a Polk County paper. They do a pretty
good job of reporting on Polk County but if
they can save a buck or two, covering it,
that's what they want to do.
Q: Do you think we need a statewide
paper?
A: I grew up that way and so I thought
it was nice to have one. I think it's kind
of a shame there isn't one. I think the
state will survive without one. It's doing a
pretty good job. I don't think anybody's
circulation - the Gazette, the Press Citizen
in Iowa City or any place else is going
gangbusters with circulation but I don't know
if any of them have dropped to the extent the
Register has, down to 155,000 during the
week. --
Section 11:
Q: Anything else you can remember about
your days that you were working at the
Register and the Cowles that we haven't
talked about just yet?
A: They were fun years. Like in your
business or anybody's business, it's the
people who make it go and we had strong
people who wanted to put out a good newspaper
and most of the time, we did put out a good
newspaper. We had the Peach Paper on Sunday
then, peach colors. You talked to Gene
Raffensperger - I don't know if he related
this story to you or not. I shouldn't be
taking Gene's story without really checking
with him, but Gene was a former Register
sports editor and a good one. He went to
some newspaper/sports editor's seminar and
they had to bring copies of their papers in
to show what they were doing, and some guy
from San Francisco or someplace saw the
Register had peach-colored paper. He said,
"The only thing I can think about doing with
that is, smoking it!" [laughter] With some
tobacco. Of course, the peach days are gone,
too. I miss that. I just miss working with
pros like Gene Raffensperger and Buck
Turnbull. Those were the kind of people who
put that thing together and kept it rolling.
I just hope I contributed just a little bit
to the success of the whole operation,
because it was a lot of fun, and like I say,
most of the years were fun. We had a lot of
ups and downs. Let's see - I remember - most
people don't remember that Drake used to be a
good basketball program way back when, but
they went to the final four in the NCAA
tournament in 1969 and I had the privilege of
covering most of those games. I've used the
words first class a couple of times in this
interview but Murray John the late coach, he
made that a first class operation because all
the road trips, his team went first class in
the commercial airplane. So because we
covered Drake and still Winona is a first
class operation, we got to go first class.
That was one of the few times that I got to
see how the first class people were able to
feel. So I have to thank Murray John for
that, for letting his twelve basketball
players go first class. That paid off, being
able to cover them. And I went through, of
course, the Hayden Frey years at Iowa. It
was nice to be able to finally write about
some winning football games under Hayden.
Unfortunately, he didn't win a Rose Bowl game
but at least he went to a couple of them and
kind of put Iowa football back on the map. I
enjoyed Hayden. Unfortunately, Hayden
couldn't be the kind of guy he wanted to be
in the Iowa job because the Iowa job was so
consuming that you got somebody wanting your
time all the time and Hayden was a great
conversationalist. He could sit there with
you and just talk and talk and talk. But the
longer he was there, then you saw less of him
because he just didn't really have time to
talk to the sports writers and everything.
But I enjoyed working with him. I admire
what he did for the Iowa football program.
He left quite a mark down there.
Q: He had some colorful language.
A: Yes, he did. That Texas language
that not even some of us who had been around
him a long time could understand. He had a
graphic way of saying things. --
Section 12:
Q: One other thing that I asked others
about at the end of the interview is to see
if you can remember back and try and describe
what the newsroom looked like. Because some
is not even configured the way it was back
when you were there. What did the rim look
like? And where were the desks and the
offices? We're talking about what, the 4th
floor?
A: It was all reversed in those days.
The sports department was pretty much in the
middle of the newsroom or just this side of
the newsroom. On the Locust Street side was
the library. On the side to the other end
was the news department and features and
things like that. We were kind of in the
middle. Everybody could see you then.
That's why that guy had to say, you know,
there is nobody here right now, even though
there were seven or eight guys there. That
rim stuck out there. Just to the other side,
then you went into the library. But now,
they've changed it around. The library is at
the other end of the building. The sports
department - this is really a bad one, too -
has been moved completely out of that
so-called 4th floor. They moved them up a
stairway, into where the editorial writers
used to be. They are kind of segregated. I
don't know why they did that. I don't know
if it was to get the sports department out of
there so nobody had to look at them or that
guy that I told you about that stepped over
Morrie White and wanted to know who that old
guy was on the floor. It's funny he didn't
know White because he sits fairly close to
what now is the sports department. The
managing editor is close by there. He's
another one of their problems. But the whole
department has been moved out and away from
the rest of the news operation. I don't
think that's right. Some poor guy, coming in
there off of 8th and Locust, that might want
to ask a question of the sports editor,
doesn't even know how to find him. Because
he's locked away up there, behind some walls.
I don't think that's right.
Q: Any other reason why the sports
department should be close to the newsroom?
A: I think it is a major part of the
newspaper. They think enough of it,
occasionally, to put a sports story out there
on page one. So when they need a good story,
they don't hesitate to take a good sports
story. I think it ought to be part of the
operation, just like it has in the past.
Q: Where do the editorial writers go?
A: They've been moved to a different
part. They're kind of off by themselves,
too. I can see that with editorial writers.
Their job is, they are supposed to be deep
thinkers and they don't have to sit there and
answer the phone and be yakking to somebody
about who scored 25 points and what the
shooting percentages were. They need a more
quiet area back there, but they are still
quite a ways away from the news operation,
too, but I can see that.
Q: You also mentioned Larry Niebergall, a
photographer there. Who are some of the
other photographers that you worked with and
were there strictly sports photographers or
were they both news and sports photographers?
A: I think the photographers were always
some of the more colorful people I worked
with. I used to go on a lot of assignments,
of course, with them. They had a guy named
Dave Finch. They had Peterson.
Q: Randy?
A: No, not Randy. He was a sports
writer. Dave Peterson, he was a
photographer. He won a Pulitzer Prize, Dave
did. He's been a very good one. Bob
Modersohn. I guess he's no longer a
photographer. He's become a
reporter/photographer now. When I came
along, it was right at the time the fabled
George Yates was still alive. I don't think
he was doing too much work anymore, but I do
remember the name and I remember seeing him.
Q: He was down to the newsroom a lot,
from what I understand.
A: Yes. I missed Ultang, but I saw him
after he left the paper. I didn't get a
chance to work with him, but I went on a lot
of assignments with Neibergall.
Unfortunately he died at a young age, 53 or
54, and I miss him a lot. I did a lot of
things with him. He was a hard worker.
After watching how those photographers have
to lug all that equipment around, kind of
like that stuff you brought in here today, I
have a great appreciation for them. It's not
easy. The pictures, obviously, are a big,
big part of any newspaper or any publication.
They certainly have added to the Register's
glory.
Q: Did you ever do any photography
yourself?
A: I did take a few pictures. When there
wasn't anybody around, you could check out a
camera and go do a story, take your own
picture. Sometimes there might be a story,
you know, where you might need to talk to
somebody for an extended period of time. Or
maybe I would drive to Iowa City and I would
need to talk to somebody but it was going to
take several hours with some interruptions,
and I didn't want to waste the photographers
time and this wasn't going to be that
complicated a picture, I would take the
picture myself and I took some pretty decent
pictures. I kept most of them in focus and
knew how to use the exposure. I had fun
doing that. I used to take my pictures at
Albert Lea, with the old speed graphing.
That's what we had at Albert Lea.
Q: Those are big clunkers, aren't they?
A: Yes. You only see them in black and
white movies now. But I was a one-man
department. I did the writing and I also
took my own pictures. I always wanted to
have a local picture every day. It was a
six-evening a week newspaper and I always
tried to get a local picture every day. I
didn't develop them, but I had a guy there
that developed my pictures so I think I know
how to appreciate a good picture.
Q: Another question is with that, is some
of the old terminology from newspapers back
in the fifties and sixties, as in slot and
lead and - well, you would know them better
than I would.
A: Spike. It was a spike. You'd say
you'd spike a story. Price did that to me
one time. There was a huge fight and stood
up there like this, and you could put any -
it was strong enough to take cardboard - but
I thought I wrote a real good story one time
- I don't know what I was covering, I don't
know what the deal was, but Price looked at
that story and the next thing I know, he's
putting it on the spike. I guess he didn't
think that much of it.
Q: Spike means you're not going to run
it?
A: No, that story didn't get run, no.
They still use that. To spike it, it means
you're not going to use it. The slot, of
course, was where the news editor, Bob Price,
sat, to dole out the stories to the copy
editors to edit and he was called a slot man
and we were the rim men. You had to be
careful, but we didn't have any women on the
desk then. That's something we haven't
talked about either, is that we didn't have
women sports writers then, in my early years
there. Then we finally got one named Mary
Alice Bennett, who worked for the Tribune.
Then Jane Burns came to the Register. She's
now at Minneapolis. And now they've got a
woman columnist, Nancy Clark, who writes a
column two or three days a week. So they do
have more women working. I've lost track of
the people they have on the desk now, but I
think there is a couple of female copy
editors, too. That is another change that
has taken place, and for the best.
Q: So not many women back in the fifties
and sixties?
A: No. I don't think many women- I don't
know because I never handled a job
application, but I don't think many women
showed interest in being sports writers. But
that changed all of the sudden, around the
country. I think you saw a group of women
coming in to the business who saw a chance to
do something different and became sports
writers. It's just like now on TV you see at
a Monday night game the sidelines announcer
is a woman. Most of the games now, there is
a woman sideline reporter.
Q: And putting this to another case, too,
are blacks or African Americans or other
minorities in the newsroom? I guess there
weren't that many in the sports department
back then.
A: Not many and there are not many at the
Register now, I don't think. There may be
some that I am not aware of, but I think the
Register would like to have some black sports
writers. And I don't know how aggressively
they've pursued that.
Q: [inaudible]. Do you think back, like
in the fifties and sixties, it was
discrimination or there just wasn't black
people applying for these jobs?
A: I would doubt that it was
discrimination. I think if they could have
found a qualified minority of any type, they
would have taken him or her. I think that
the time was fast approaching when the
Register would very likely have a woman
sports editor. I can see that time coming.
And I think if they could find who they're
looking for, I think they'd love to have a
black sports editor, a black sports writer or
a black woman sports writer, sports editor.
I don't think that the paper in all of my
years there, and even since, has ever been
guilty of discrimination.
Q: Okay, well those are my questions. It
has been a pleasure talking with you.
A: It's been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed
doing it.
Q: Taking you back a little.
A: Yes. I had a better grasp of some of
those things than I thought I might.
