Section 1: Q: Any ethical conflicts that you came across
at the time that you were on the commercial
beat, or any other time during your tenure
there?
A: That's one thing I pride myself in, and
Mize did, too. Both of us had somewhat
influential jobs on the Tribune. (I was
named city editor in 1965.) Advertising knew
about it and they knew to not come down to us
and tell us to hold a story. If it was a
story that should be in the paper, it was
going to go in. I can remember Mize every
now and then having a little conversation at
his desk with somebody from advertising
telling them, "This is the way it's going to
be, take it or leave it." The Register was
involved in this, too. There was a heating
and plumbing firm here, and I'm not going to
use names because there's no use to get into
it. The son got into a hell of a lot of
trouble with his driving. He was arrested
several times for drunken driving and was
finally involved in a fatal accident. We
were covering that story and we were covering
it pretty well. The firm threatened to pull
their ads. We told them this is the way it's
going to be. I think they did pull their ads
out of the paper for a long time. Later on,
I think it was shortly after I left the
newsroom, somebody else could tell you more
about it, but Younkers pulled their ads. I
was not involved in that. I think that was
in the mid-seventies.
Q: That had something to do with an
editorial, I think.
A: It might have been. Editorial pages were
the same way. I think we took pride in the
fact that we weren't going to be dictated to
by advertising. That was one of the
incidents. I remember every once in a while
somebody in advertising coming down to the
city desk and saying, "This is our situation
and we just wanted you to know." They used
to contact us once in a while if a merchant
was complaining to them about something.
Usually it was just the fact that the story
was in the paper. But if, once in a while,
an advertiser felt that there were some facts
wrong or something, we appreciated that and
we would check into it. But as far as ever
pulling a story or sitting on something, no.
Q: This may be not specific to advertisers,
but were there any sacred cows that you knew
of? And, if so, how were they dealt with?
A: Ken MacDonald did not like snakes or bugs
or pictures thereof. Eyerly never drove a
car. I think that Jeannette, his wife,
bought a Volkswagen at one time. Back in
those days, they don't do it so much anymore,
I think we used to identify the makes and
models of crashes. He was not too happy when
Volkswagens were involved. There were little
things like that. Of course Frank, as I'm
sure you were told, liked pictures of pretty
girls. As a matter of fact, some of the
Register editors would run a picture of a
cute girl and say, "This is for Frank." We
didn't worry about that on the Tribune. Back
in those days, we had the Tribune picture
page. The back page of the Tribune was
always photos. It wasn't want ads or
classifieds or what have you now. I don't
know of any no-no's. Frank, as far as editing
back in the early days when I was a copy
editor, wanted us to present both sides. If
you were editing a wire story, you had better
damn well keep both sides in. I remember one
time he came out and asked about bold face
type. It seemed to him that the labor
union's position always ended up in bold
face. I think somebody was just kind of
putting the bold face in every four
paragraphs. They were that meticulous about
it. We had to be fair.
Q: Along the same lines, were there any
stories that didn't get published? And, if
so, what were they?
A: Well, Brian, I'm sure we had some that
didn't get published, but none stand out in
my mind. A lot of times a story might be
pulled just for questions on facts. That
would be the main reason. There were a
couple of incidences, and again I'm not going
to use names, where reporters, and two of
them were on the Tribune staff, we found out
were kind of throwing their weight around.
They were telling news sources, "You do this
or I'm going to do this in the paper." To
make a long story short, they were gone
quick, once we found out about it.
Q: Specifically, what were they doing?
A: One involved the courthouse and some of
the office holders. The other one was a
fellow we had out in West Des Moines in the
early days. He was one of our early
reporters who concentrated on West Des Moines
and we got word back that he was throwing his
weight around the city hall. I suppose it
was in efforts to get somebody to tell him
something or other. He couldn't do anything,
but he said he could. As far as holding
stories out, as I told you we pride ourselves
on running everything. Other than for what
we would call a professional reason, we
weren't happy or Mize might say, "Let's do
this over," or "We're going to just scrub it,
it just doesn't sound right." That's
basically what we were worried about, the
facts and the material that we covered. I'm
sure there were stories at the bottom of the
pecking order that would never get in. --
Section 2: Q: On another topic, you compared your writing and
your reporting. I wonder if you could make
the distinction. You were obviously a good
writer, you wrote for the Tribune. What do
you think you were better at?
A: I was better at editing, I suppose.
That's where I ended up. I could write, but
I didn't have those phrases and everything
that a good writer has. I got the job done,
"get the facts, ma'am," that type of thing.
When I was offered the job on the city desk
as assistant city editor, I thought that was
where I belonged. I guess that's the way it
ended up because I edited the rest of my
career. I enjoyed editing. I enjoyed taking
a piece of copy, particularly if it was
messed up, and making it better. Of course
that's the only joy an editor has, literally.
You're anonymous, but if you can take a
piece of rough copy and straighten it out and
people understand it, that's the key.
Q: Was there something distinctive about the
Tribune that set it apart from other papers?
I think Ultang and even Asbille were talking
about the photography.
A: The Tribune used to be "the paper with the
pictures." That is the one place, and Ultang
probably would tell you, we had Tribune
photographers and we had Register
photographers and in some projects they
worked together, like the Big Peach and
stuff. Occasionally we would swap over from
one to the other. On major natural events,
like floods and things like that, obviously
they would be taking pictures for both
papers. I think the Tribune always prided
itself on being a Des Moines paper. We
blanketed Des Moines, governmental agencies
and local happenings. Our features primarily
originated in the Des Moines area. We didn't
consider ourselves a state paper like the
Register did. From that standpoint, there
was a lot of pride. We prided ourselves on
our picture pages and all our photos. As I
say, we were the paper with the pictures. I
always like to think of the Tribune as a
local paper. Let the Register be the state
paper.
Q: You were the assistant city editor and
city editor so you have an overview of what
looked good in the writing and putting a
picture together with that. Can you give me
a feel for what it took?
A: It was hard to tell. Occasionally if you
had assigned someone to a situation, you
would just have a feel for what there should
be. A lot of times they would go out and
there weren't any pictures at all. Or, a lot
of times when I was a city editor I would
give a photographer a theme and turn him
loose. A lot of times they would come back
with a beautiful picture page. Basically, I
suppose you would kind of visualize to
yourself what a situation was going to be and
you would assign a photographer. Once in a
while they would call back and say there
would be nothing there. It was part of the
job. Once in a while a reporter would
"enterprise" a story and turn it in. You
would say, "My God, we ought to have art with
this." So you would assign a photographer if
it was a situation where you could go back
and get the art. You're right, you always
had a picture in the back of your mind if you
could do it.
Q: Any standout reporters that worked under
you as city editor?
A: Actually, I have quite a list. Don Kaul,
Jim Flansburg, George Anthen, Jim Risser (who
is now head of the press institute out at
Stanford). They all came through the Tribune
and I feel a little pride in that.
Q: Did you coach these people?
A: I told Kaul, "For God's sake, go out and
buy a dictionary." He couldn't spell "cat"
when he first came. Kaul was a hell of a
feature man. He'll admit he wasn't the
greatest reporter in the world. I would send
him down to cover a parade and you might not
know who was in the parade or how many people
watched the parade, but by God, the
four-year-old he sat down beside told you
about the parade and that's the way he would
cover it. When he first came I was the
assistant editor and I would have the city
desk on Saturdays. There were parades on
Saturdays and lots of times there wasn't much
else going on, so Don would cover a parade.
Flansburg was a fine reporter. Anthen was a
fine reporter. Spiegel worked for me, too.
Bob is living in Florida now, but Bob was a
heck of a writer and he was our labor
reporter back in the days when labor was a
lot stronger. Of course, it's a pretty big
situation now in Des Moines. It was probably
like it is now, there was always something
going on. He was hired by the Mason City
Globe. He went up there as editor, then he
ended up as editor of the Madison Capital
Times in Madison, Wisconsin. Bob was the
spotter on the famous Johnny Bright incident,
but Bob also worked for the Tribune for about
fifteen years as a reporter. He was a good
man and a good reporter. I'm trying to think
of some of the other guys. Jerry Mersner,
who ended up and still works as a political
consultant. He was a hell of a reporter. I
had him at the right time because our staff
was somewhat reduced and I used to complain
to Eyerly all the time that we didn't have
enough people. I suppose it was the budget.
But, Jerry was a general assignment reporter,
and he really did a heck of a job for me.
Q: Like you say, it's a long list.
A: Yes, it is a long list. I was there 27
years. I'm trying to think of the name of
the little black girl that worked for me,
Eleanor Tate. As often happens when you get
somebody new in the newsroom, you put them on
obits. We had Ellie on obits. Ellie has
done pretty well as the author of children's
books. She and her husband live back east in
one of the Carolinas. I don't remember if
she wrote any sterling pieces for us. This
was back in the days, in the early sixties,
with the emergence of the Black Panthers
locally and Charlie Knox and his movement.
We weren't as aware, and we tried to do a job
but we had a lilly white newsroom. Ellie was
one of the few blacks who worked for us at
that time.
Q: Even women were rare back then.
A: Women were rare, that's right. But we had
a couple. Lil Laughlin, I forgot to mention
Lil earlier. She was one of the people that
worked for me. She was a great writer, gosh,
she could write. She was a feature writer.
Did anybody mention her name?
Q: What's her last name?
A: Lil Laughlen. Lil was a great writer and
a great feature writer. I remember when some
fellow came out with a radical new typewriter
keyboard. They still have proponents of it.
Q: The letters were lined up differently?
A: Yes, and we got Lil one of those. Judas
Priest, it's terrible when you get to be my
age and you can't think of the name of that
system. We got her one of those typewriters
and we told her to take her time, six weeks,
and do a series on it. She did and she kept
the damn typewriter until the day she
retired. The copy coming from it looked the
same and she got to a point where she could
use it better than a standard typewriter.
She was a great reporter and a great feature
writer. I'm surprised that somebody hadn't
mentioned her. We had a couple of other gals
that worked for us. Jane Boulware was
another one who ended up as our first church
writer, although she was a general assignment
reporter. She evolved into the Tribune's
church editor. We always had a Saturday
church page in the Tribune and that was
basically her baby. But Lil was by far the
outstanding woman reporter that I had. She
could cover spot stuff, if she had to. Lil
worked up until the early eighties and she
was older than I am. She retired a few years
before I did, with her old typewriter. The
Tribune gave it to her when she left. --
Section 3: Q: You weren't with the Tribune when it shut
down in 1982?
A: No, I was not. But, I was at that time
close to all the guys.
Q: What is your opinion about that? Was it
necessary?
A: This is where the bean-counters had the
final say, but as I understand it the
advertisers who paid a rate for both papers
didn't feel that the money was well spent in
the Tribune because the Tribune circulation
had dropped off quite a bit. I'm not sure
what it was when they finally ended up, but I
imagine it was close to one hundred thousand
one way or the other. It was quite a drop.
It was primarily a financial decision as I
understand it. I don't know whether they
went to rates for both papers or not, but a
lot of the advertisers were pulling out.
Again, I'm sure that television had something
to do with it. By that time it pretty well
entrenched itself on the national and local
news scenes.
My own son, that's right. Nostalgically
speaking, I hated to see it go. Being in a
syndicate I knew what was going on
nationwide. We were losing clients, too. The
sad part about the Register, of course, was
that it was not in a competitive town. In
the competitive towns, the thing we could do
with the syndicate at that time was to go to
the competition who didn't have our features.
I knew what was going on nationally, there
was no doubt about it that for PM papers,
their days were numbered in most instances.
The Tribune closing was a sad affair; you
hated to see it happen. There were still a
lot of my friends working there. My daughter
was on the Tribune copy desk when it closed
and luckily she had enough ability that they
kept her and she switched to the Register.
There was a period of apprehension there for
a while. That was a sad day. I still have
people to this day, who knew that I was part
of the paper, say, "I miss that Tribune. Just
coming home at night and sitting down on the
front stoop reading the Tribune." --
Section 4: Q: You went to the syndicate in '72, is that
right?
A: Correct.
Q: That was when there was a merger or a
cooperative effort between the Christian
Science Monitor in Boston and the Register
and Tribune Syndicate in Des Moines.
A: I can't say I was there for the birth of a
new service even though I would like to. One
of my predecessors at the Syndicate was Walt
Graham. Walt was an old newspaperman. He
had worked for the Register for a number of
years. He was older than I, of course.
Before World War II, he was section editor
for the Register and handled the society
pages. Walt left the Register before the war
and went to Toledo or someplace but he didn't
sever connections completely. After the war,
he ended up working for the Register and
Tribune Syndicate as an editor. Basically,
he edited most of the Syndicate material. In
January of 1972, I'm not sure how the
approaches were made, but the Register and
Tribune Syndicate administrators got word
that the Monitor was thinking about
syndicating its stuff, and they got together.
Walt was a party to setting up the
mechanics, if you will, of this thing. That
involved mailing material from Boston to Des
Moines -- selecting the material on that end
and deciding what we were going to do with it
on this end. What happened was that Walter
was going to retire at that same time and
they needed someone to edit Monitor News, the
Service. Going back to my Drake journalism
days and in later years, too, the Monitor was
one of the key newspapers in the United
States. Pat originally wanted to apply for
the job, but we decided that maybe I would
instead simply because, to be frank, it
didn't look like I was going a lot farther in
the Tribune hierarchy. I was city editor, but
in the meantime they had named Drake Mabry,
one of my reporters, as managing editor. The
handwriting was kind of on the wall for me.
Besides, I wasn't going to spend the rest of
my life on the city desk. That's too hectic.
Frank Clark was still at the syndicate then
and he was my contact there. They thought I
could work at it and I was really anxious to
do it. You might ask why the hell a city
editor who was dealing with the mayor and the
city council and everything like that would
quit to edit an international news service?
That goes back to my old days in the copy
desk where I used to handle wire copy. I
realized there was life outside Des Moines.
I wanted to be part of it and here was a
chance to work with a great newspaper -- to
disseminate their stuff as an anonymous
editor, but to put it out to other parts of
the world. That's basically, in a nutshell,
why I went. It was hard work. We would
select eight or ten stories and 10 or 12
photos each day and have to reproduce them
and get them in our news package for mailing.
We were working with day-old stuff from the
Monitor. At the end of each day, an editor
in Boston would select what he thought were
the best pictures and some of the better
stories for the next day's Monitor mail them
overnight to us. I would have this material
to work with and take from the next morning.
I didn't use all of the stuff, obviously.
Then we had to reproduce it. We had to
reproduce pictures and all the copy. The
sales staff did a heck of a job. I'm
thinking well over a hundred newspapers were
on line when the Syndicate joined in April of
'72. We were putting together packages and
mailing them out from Des Moines every day.
At first I was alone.
Q: You were editing this copy and photographs
and sending them out?
A: We had a photographic department, but I
had to select the pictures and write the
cutlines for them before they went to photo
for reproduction. We had a staff in the
backroom that was processing all the stories
and cutlines, but I was in charge for
reproduction. Originally, we'd get the
photos from the photo lab, 100 copies of any
given picture, and I would have 10 or 12
pictures from each in a package. We had a
deaf/mute back there and she was a whiz with
a paste pot. I don't know if you ever saw old
newspaper photos with cut lines that were
typed and pasted on. She could paste cutlines
on twelve hundred pictures and she would get
those out...
Tape Two, Side One
Q: You were talking about getting it out, the
woman in the back...
A: She was so good with the paste. Her name
was Arlene Van Hemert. The fact was that
physically getting this package out the first
year or so was really rough. Eventually they
hired an assistant for me, a young graduate
fellow named Al Leeds Drake. You may not
have heard of Al, but he's still very active.
He's head of the Washington Post Writers
Group. He worked for me for a couple of
years. He was a very personable young man;
they put him in sales. After Al left, I had
other assistants.
Q: Did you enjoy this work?
A: I did. It was a real challenge, I really
enjoyed it. The Monitor had a great staff of
people. It was also my introduction to
computers as such during the early '70s.
First of all we went through the
scannable-type era. I don't know whether
that ever came up in any of your interviews.
The composing rooms in newspapers perfected
their machinery to a point where they
eliminated the linotype machines and they
could read typed copy, but it had to be in a
certain format. We started putting out what
we called scannable copy. That was a big
thing. We still reproduced it in our shop,
but it was scannable and supposedly could be
read by the typesetting machines. We went
through that phrase for a year or so and I
always had two typists who typed all Monitor
copy. I would decide which stories, but we
had to have them typed in scannable format
and reproduced it and put it in the packages.
Eventually, we got computers. About the
same time they put a wire over which we could
receive and send some Monitor stories to
clients. We eventually advanced to the point
that we could go from computer to the wire
and wouldn't have to have a typist retype it.
Q: It sounds similar to the Internet and
email.
A: Very, very primitive. We had the usual
problems with breakdowns and stuff. Dennis
Allen, our president, was nice enough to name
me news editor of the Syndicate in 1976.
With the help I had, I was able also to keep
an eye on the other stuff. I had other
editors working features, comics, things like
that. I was responsible technically for all
of that, but my number one biggy was still
the Monitor. By that time, we were all over
the world. We had international clients, we
had Scandinavian papers, Johannsburg, Japan,
some of the bigger papers in the world were
taking this stuff. We were mailing what we
called a "foreign package." We developed
that along with the daily packages early on.
We would only send them a couple of packages
a week by the fastest mail possible. It was
feature stuff, not spot stuff. Eventually
they got on the wire too and would get spot
stuff from us. But in 1978, the Monitor
decided not to renew a third three-year
contract with us for the News Service. I can
honestly say this and I don't think Allen or
anybody else would deny it, there was no
problem with the editorial content of the
packages. In other words, they were very
happy with what I was putting out as editor.
But, they were not happy with the way it was
being sold. They thought somebody else could
do better. A couple of syndicates were
leaning on the Monitor, I think, saying they
could do a better job selling it. To make a
long story short, in 1978 the Monitor went
to Los Angeles Times syndicate with the news
service. We eventually took on Pacific News
Service and we had some other news services
that we dealt with for the last eight years
of our existence. We always had a news
package. Through those years on the
Syndicate, I was handling stuff other than
the Monitor. I handled Dan Shorn and Roy
Wilkins. I ran across the letter I had to
send poor Roy. Roy was getting old and some
of his stuff was pretty awful and he
complained about the way I changed his copy.
It was a pretty good letter. I didn't think
I wrote it, it was so good. We're talking
about a legend here and I had to write and
tell them him...you know.
Q: And Dan Shorn, too.
A: We got along fine. He was a great guy. We
had a lot of other people come through. Clark
Mollenhoff, of course. Clark, he would be
the first to admit it, was not the easiest
guy to edit. Any of the guys on the Register
could have told you, not the easiest guy to
edit. Clark was not the greatest writer in
the world, but he was a great investigative
reporter. Even after he left the Register,
we syndicated his columns, and I worked with
Clark for a number of years.
Q: What an experience.
A: It was great. Like I say, editors are
anonymous but there's usually a good editor
behind a good column. Mike Gartner, his
"Words" column that he still writes, we
syndicated that, too. I didn't question him
very often. He was actually our boss. He was
president of the syndicate when I started
there. He sent his copy to us and we sent it
out. I knew Mike Gartner from the time he
was little. His father, Carl, was a very
dear friend. I was in the middle, but I
remember the first time going to Carl's house
and there were these two little guys in their
Dr. Dentons, Mike and his brother, David. As
a matter of fact, Mike was the guy who hired
my daughter, who was working at the time in
Chicago at a weekly newspaper. He said, "Why
don't you come back home and work for us?" --
Section 5: Q: Just a couple of wrap up questions. You
were not there for the change in the
ownership?
A: Technically, I wasn't. We ended up as
kind of orphans because the Cowles owned us
but we didn't go along with the sale of the
Register to Gannett. For four years, we were
sitting there.
Q: You weren't working for the Register, but
I'm wondering if you have some opinion. If
you look at the Register, can you make a
comparison as to what it used to be.
A: You always run into that with old editors,
I think. Nothing was like it used to be.
I'm not happy from a technical standpoint.
There are a lot of typos and things that you
see in the Register. The old-timers will
tell you, Parker Mize was a guy who would
send a page back for a misplaced comma. We
had a lot of pride in the way that paper went
together. Particularly misspelled names or
anything like that. I shouldn't criticize.
I'm sure if there's a major error and a libel
suit is pending, they could get a page made
over. I don't think they would go to the
extent we did. I think they do a fine job on,
local coverage. But as an old city editor, I
know we have thousands and thousands of
visitors come to Des Moines, in fact Des
Moines calls itself the "Convention City,"
and I see very, very few conventions covered.
We had to keep an eye on conventions and we
used to cover conventions a little more.
Time and time again, I run into people while
traveling who say they were in Des Moines and
never saw a word on it and they had five or
six hundred people. You may say it's not the
greatest news in the world, but it's just an
example of certain local activities that I
think they could cover better. They do a
great job on some things that maybe I didn't.
Life is a lot more complex now. I'm sure
they've told you this there was something
positive about local ownership. I think
that, too. With all due respect, Gannett's
bringing people in all the time and moving
them out. I don't care what you say, people
who know Iowa can cover Iowa just a little
bit better than people who don't know Iowa.
I say that with a little bit of pride. Of
course I technically was an import but I
certainly feel that I am an Iowan. I get a
little sick sometimes of being told that
we're being neglected because of all this big
city stuff. They can have it. To me, Iowa
is still the country's best kept secret. I
have traveled all over and I know, I don't
care what you say. We don't have mountains
and we don't have the ocean, but we have a
way of life out here that I haven't found
anywhere else. Young people come in from New
York and from the big cities back east and
the far west and all that stuff. On the
Tribune, the word was that nobody ever got
fired. I mentioned a couple instances where
people did get fired, but basically if you
did the job, they weren't going to let you
go. They appreciated you. I don't know what
goes on now. First of all, I don't have an
office to go back to. The mechanical
department moved into the Syndicate offices
the weekend I left. That's the main fault I
have with absentee ownership. I just don't
think you'll ever get that hometown flavor,
hometown concern. I have all due respect to
the people they send in here, and they try.
Q: They will tell you they are covering Des
Moines as well as anybody.
A: I really can't criticize. That is a minor
thing on conventions. I think they're doing a
good job.
Q: There might be something missing, though.
It's not the paper that Iowa depends on
anymore.
A: The Register pulling itself in the way it
did. That was sad. Even the old Tribune had
readers in every county. It used to go on
the train at night and would get to the
readers the next day.
Q: You mentioned the bean counters, but we've
always had bean counters. I wonder why
that's changed.
A: Again, getting into it, I've heard it's a
bottom line. I'm sure it was with us. They
closed the Tribune. That was the reason.
They were losing money. They were losing
advertisers. I guess in the long run, the
CPAs run the world along with the lawyers. --
Section 6: Q: Those are my questions. Is there anything
else you want to add here. I think we've
covered a lot.
A: I wanted to mention that Pat came to work
and stayed on the Tribune copy desk through
World War II. She told me Ken MacDonald came
out one day and said, "Don't let Pat Cooney
handle anything on the Aleutian invasion." I
was up there at the time and there was a
report the Japanese had ten thousand troops
on Kiska Island, which was near where I was.
I was on a little Navy ship, part of a
convoy. They said, "Don't let her handle
that. That could be bloody and awful." As
it turned out, the Japanese were gone. But
that's just the way they were concerned for
Pat. As I say, she retired in '47 and we had
six children. After our youngest boy was
born, she heard that they were still looking
for copy editors on the Register so she
applied for a job and went in and worked a
couple of weekends for about four or five
years. She continued to do that off and on.
Our daughter Kitty was born in '60 and Pat
she was still working part-time for the
society department. Larry Hutchinson, who
was a contemporary of Parker Mize and a fine
editor himself, was head of the women's
department. He wanted Pat to come and work
for him full-time as a writer. That's when
she went back to work -- for about twelve
years. Then the first early retirement offers
came in. Pat got a little panicky, why I'll
never know. She worked for a great guy named
Jim McGuire. He's somebody you ought to talk
to, too. He was head of what they called
then the women's department and he's still
here in Des Moines. He came in as a farm
writer and editor early on and eventually
ended up as women's editor. One thing she
didn't have was a lot of self-confidence, but
she did a great job with some of the stories.
She was writing on date rape before people
ever knew what it was. She did the first
story I ever read on Gambler's Anonymous.
She flew into Chicago on her own to attend a
GA meeting and did a great story. We're
talking back in the '80s, now. She did some
good work. This early retirement came and
she thought she had better take it. Jim
McGuire told me later she could have stayed.
Anyway, that's it. That's the complete
story, we ought to quit right now.
Q: Well, very nice. Thank you.
