Section 1:
Q: You said that The New York Times
recognized the paper. Did that increase your
subscription rates?
A: Nobody in New York subscribed. I kept
waiting for those people out there to say,
"We need your paper, too," but it just didn't
happen.
Q: Around Iowa did it increase?
A: No, the number of people in Iowa that
read The New York Times is minimal. I'm
sure there are a couple thousand, but the
Wall Street Journal has better penetration.
USA Today has [a far] better penetration
than The New York Times does. But it was fun
to have them come, and it was interesting
because the team that came to do the story,
the writer came from Washington DC and
the photographer came from Portland, Oregon,
so that was a lot of expense for them to
invest, to come in and do it. They
interviewed me for about an hour and a half
and took a lot of pictures of me. I didn't
make the cut at all. There were no pictures
of me at all in the story, there were no
quotes from me in the story, but they did
quote my news department quite extensively.
That's good, that's where they should have
been anyway.
Q: Does your paper endorse political
candidates?
A: Absolutely.
Q: How much say do you have? Do the
political views match yours very closely?
Do they differ from the community's?
A: No. My political views pretty much
match the community. Northwest Iowa is
republican. It's the republican stronghold of
Iowa. My wife is such a "capital R"
republican that on election day she spouts
red, white and blue. I'm not quite that much.
I am less a party person than my wife is. The
paper, if anything, is republican. We are pro-
life. We are very pro-life, and we state so
very often. Jay writes one of the editorials
for the paper and somebody in our office sits
at home and writes an editorial for the paper.
I don't see one of them until they come out. I
write my own column, and I take my own
position in my own column. I picked up the
paper and read it, and it was about one
candidate or another, and it said, "The man
whom we will endorse this election." I said,
"Well, it's a little early for us to be endorsing
a candidate."
But that's where we stand. I went into my
newsroom about six months ago and said, "You
guys aren't going to like this." Again, I can't
remember what the situation was, but I said,
"I want to run this column. This is what the
column says and you're not going to like it."
And they said to me, "Why are we not going to
like this?" I said, "Because inherently,
newspaper reporters and editors are democrat,
and this is a republican position." And they
looked at me, all nine of them, and said, "What
makes you think we're democrats?" I said, "Well,
inherently, newspaper people - editors and
reporters – are democrats. I presumed you
were." And they said, "No. Haven't you
caught on yet? We're all republican. We're
all pro-life."
I suddenly realized that - maybe in the hiring
process, a lot of my kids come from the
Christian colleges up in Northwest Iowa –
has a lot to do with it. To [the last man or
woman] every single one of my editorial
staff is republican. However, on the last
state election, there was a man by the name
of Doug Gross who ran for governor, with
the republican party. I came out with an
editorial, a signed editorial that said,
"Whatever we do, do not elect Doug Gross
governor of the state of Iowa. He has been
scheduled to speak in Northwest Iowa,
which is the heart of republicanism five
times, and all five times he's sent somebody
to come speak for him. All five times he's
chosen to stay down in the golden corner
and spout off to his cronies in Des Moines
or nearby communities. He doesn't give a
damn about Northwest Iowa, we shouldn't
care about him." I may [run] a republican
paper, but I took a very solid editorial
position against Gross being elected. It was
the difference in Vilsack's election, actually.
Gross has not talked to me since, but that's
O.K. I have nothing I want to talk to him
about. --
Section 2:
Q: How has the Des Moines Register
influenced your newspaper over the years?
How do you think it influences other state
newspapers?
A: It doesn't. The Des Moines Register is
"The Newspaper Iowa Depends Upon," but
as state publication there is no way in the
world we can match its resources or its
abilities, nor do we want to. Many of the
things that they cover would not be of
interest to our readers, but many of the
things the cover would be. Our readers want
to know it from our perspective. We had the
Pope come, and he came to Des Moines and
he did an actual mass out in at Living
History Farms. We wrote for credentials.
We sent my son Jeff who was probably a
high school senior and one of the writers
who was about two years older down to
cover that for us. Jeff remembers it very
well because he got down there and
[security] broke all the cameras down to
make sure they weren't guns before they
finally got them all put together so they go
up to take the pictures.
And Jeff is jockeying for position and
jockeying for a position, and finally one of
the guys that's up in photo line pulls back
for a second and Jeff jumps in there with
his Nikon. [He] starts shooting, leaning over
the rope and getting pictures of the pope as
he's coming up to go up to the platform to do
the mass. All the time he's doing that there's
a guy just pounding on his back, and pounding
on his back, trying to pull him away from the
rope and Jeff said, “I'm not going to give up
my shooting position to somebody else who was
not there to grab it when the opportunity came
along.”
So he just ignored the guy, and the guy is
beating on him furiously, and he kept
shooting pictures of the Pope as the Pope
came and walked by to go up on the
platform. Then Jeff turned around. It was a
secret service man concerned about Jeff
being over the rope and maybe attempting to
take the Pope's life.
We had our own men there because we have
a good Catholic community. Granville is all
Catholic, for example. Sheldon is about 40
percent Catholic. When something like that
happens, we want to be there to be a part of
it. The Register's there, and they covered it
nationally. We covered it from how
Northwest Iowans are involved. I don't think
we ever look at the Register and say, "This
is what the Register is doing so this is what
we need to do, too." We're looking and
saying, "How can we be unique enough and
effective enough, in presenting the total
picture of the story of Northwest Iowa that
people are going to want to subscribe to us
and have this in their home?" --
Section 3:
Q: How do you feel about the state of
current college journalism schools?
A: I'm upset with them. I am upset with
journalism education across America. I was
invited to be the publisher-in-residence at
Iowa State, five or six years ago. I went
from class to class speaking about whatever
topic they wanted to talk about and spent
considerable time there. One afternoon I was
invited into a room and I walked in. As I
walked in [the first thing] the professor of
the class said to me [was], "Mr. Wagner,
what are you going to tell your
grandchildren when they climb up on your
knee and say 'Grandpa, are you really
responsible for killing all those trees so that
you could put out your newspaper?'"
And I said, "My golly, where do you come from?"
He said, "Well, I just came here from
Wisconsin. I was on the faculty at the
University of Wisconsin, and I don't even
buy a newspaper. I get all of my news online
because I don't want to destroy trees." I said,
"If you're from Wisconsin you must
know because Wisconsin is the state where
more paper manufacture equipment is made
than any place else. Paper mills buy their
manufacturing equipment from Wisconsin.
Companies that recycle newsprint buy their
recycling equipment from companies that
exist in Wisconsin. Haven't you ever talked
to these companies?
The first thing they'll tell is that in the
process of recycling newsprint, they create
such an overload of heavy substance that when
they bury it in the ground it won't turn into
dirt again for about another 170 years. That's
better than cutting down trees? Have you ever
bothered to check to find out that in Wisconsin
trees are a product just like corn is in Iowa?
They plant them every year so they can harvest
them at a certain point and have the wood to
make print newsprint, and you're saying I'm
killing trees to make the newspaper?"
I said "What class is this anyway?" Public
relations. I said, "Oh, good. Well, how many
of you are there?" I asked the class this.
[There were] 77. "O.K. How many of you
plan to get a job in public relations when
you get out of school?" Seventy-seven hands
go up. "Alright, of the 77 of you, how many
know someone who graduated from this
course last year?" Seventy-seven hands go
up. "Alright, of all of you in this class, how
many of you know somebody who
graduated in public relations last year who
has a full-time job in public relations
today?" One hand went up. What happened
to the other 76? Well they're waiting tables
waiting for something to open up in public
relations.
Colleges today attempt to tell people that
all of the future is in public relations or
electronic journalism. Tom Brokaw and I went
to college together. I know Tom personally.
Jay is a good friend of a guy who has been
with KTIV since Jay was with me and the
newspaper in Sheldon. It's been, what, 25
years? He's basically doing the same job
today he did 20 years ago. Why? Because all
of the national networks have downsized
their news departments, or are sharing news
departments, and so they're not hiring up
from the stations so the stations have no way
of getting their better people so they can hire
new people. We're sitting down in
communities like mine begging good-quality
individuals to come to work for us at our
newspaper. At the point that I last talked to
Al at least we were paying better money for
our writers than he was getting as a TV
journalist.
So I go to places like Iowa State where that's
exactly what they're doing - this teaching
public relations, and teaching electronic
journalism. Or South Dakota State where
my brother was the president, where I sat
was traditionally, year after year after year,
as part of the teaching staff, not because of
Bob, but because of some other relationships
in the journalism department. [I] would have
them say to me as we all got together as
professors to have lunch, "Well, you know
there is no future in newsprint. We're telling
our people to go into electronics." And I'd
say to them, "When was the last time you
were in a newspaper office?" "Oh, back
before I started teaching, about 20 years
ago."
And I started saying, "Well, you know
we do this, this, this and this today." "You
do? I thought only big papers did that."
There is a tremendous opportunity in print
journalism, and a tremendous need for print
journalism. If you left here when you got out
of college, and you bought one of those
regurgitated papers. And you were a staff of
two for the rest of your life, and you made a
decent living, and you put out a product that
made the town feel good about itself, and
grow, and react to what was going wrong in
the town, you would have done a great
service. But there are people who think,
"No. By golly I've got to be the next
Tom Brokaw."
What really upsets me with Tom Brokaw?
Tom Brokaw didn't join my fraternity, but
he hung out there a lot. He mentions the
fraternity [Beta Theta Pi] in his book. Tom
would sit in the fraternity house with me as
a junior, and he would say to me, "Peter,
when I get here, I'm going to do this. And
then I'll be here and I'm going to do this.
And then I'm going to be here and I'll do
this, and then I'll be here and I'll do this.”
And damn it, he did. Exactly the way he told
me he'd do it, right down to the towns where
he said he was going to. It just upsets me
that someone can plan their life that clearly
and succinctly and have it turn out that way.
He's been a good journalist. He's a good
reporter. I have nothing against Tom. But
the fact he made it work exactly the way he
said he was going to just isn't fair. The rest
of us have to take a few lumps. Tom has just
worked right. Tom is retiring at the end of
this year, by the way. If you think Tom is
phenomenal, you should meet his wife –
she’s twice the person. --
Section 4:
Q: How has journalism changed
[technologically] in your lifetime?
A: When we first started printing our papers
back in 1962, we were offset. We printed on
a little 266LD press. It printed about that
much newsprint at the time on the side and
we turned it around and printed the next side
we were offset. But back then there was no
real electronic typesetting equipment. We'd
cut words out of other papers to piece up our
grocery ads, so every word would be a
different type face. And half the time your
photos wouldn't turn out. It was just terrible.
Of course, today we're completely
computerized. We drive typesetters that just
amaze me. Film comes off the image setter
page after page after page ready to go on the
press.
In fact, we're in the process now we'll
the plate before the end of the year, and not
have to use image setters anymore. Back in
the old days you'd paste it up and then you'd
go take a picture and you'd run it through the
different baths to get the film developed and
fixed and you'd hang it on the line to dry and
you'd opaque it. Jay remembers opaqueing
when he was a kid. You'd either opaque
with a paint brush and red paint so that the
dots wouldn't come through, and then you'd
lay it on a plate and burn the plate then
you'd hand scrub up the plate. And you
finally got to press and you print two pages.
Now we turn on our presses and we can
print twenty-four pages or whatever it is, I'm
not sure, I've never had to figure it out. At
one time it was 25,000 copies an hour.
We have a new press coming [and it will
print] 45,000 copies an hour. That's just
amazing in a town our size to have that
opportunity because there's so much stuff
coming down the pipe that the bigger
companies are buying the better stuff and
selling off their stuff which to us is pretty
good. I can remember staying up all night
pasting up a page. Now it's done in a matter
of minutes. I sit down with a designer with a
design station and say, "I want this, this and
this." She does it and I walk away and it's
finished.
We have a machine in the back of
the imaging department that will take - as
we send the page to the printer or the image-
setter of the negative page, you know how
that works, you've all learned that, the same
time it does it this big, giant printer prints
out a full page in full color exactly as it'll
appear on the press. So we can look at that
full-color, full-page proof and say, "There is a
problem here, this is laid on top of the copy
or this is this."
Years ago you did that at the printing press
itself and half the time you had to say, "Well,
that's too bad," and it'll look bad. I remember
putting a page on the press up in Worthington
once, and it was a full page for a pizza place,
and they flip-flopped the negatives. The sky was
yellow, the building was purple, his pants were
orange and he's wearing a lime green shirt. It
was terrible, but we had no way of changing
it because it was too late, we had to make
deadlines. Today, with the new proof device
that wouldn't happen. --
Section 5:
Q: One of the issues with Iowa journalism
is an issue with Iowa itself.
Demographically it's a very old state. Per
capita there are more people 85 or older in
this state than anywhere else in the United
States. It's the fourth oldest state of those
over 65. What's the future for your paper,
because of this brain drain of students who
go to Iowa State, and go to the great land-
grant universities here who leave because
they don't want to work as a reporter if they
make $23,000 a year? How do you fit in
with the future of print journalism? You're a
proponent of print journalism, but the best
and the brightest of our students don't want
to go to a small town. How do you compete
with that?
A: For everyone that doesn't want to go to a
small town, there is one who loves the
idyllic lifestyle of a small town community
where you don't have to lock the door of
your car when you go to into a store, where
you don't have to worry about your dog
when he goes out to go to the bathroom,
where you don't have to live in fear, where
you've got some ideals and ideas that are
exceptional. One of the things we want to
do, is we're trying to get a law passed in
Iowa right now. We want everybody in high
school to have to get married before they
graduate, that way they'll never leave town.
We'll have all these young people in town,
but we're probably not going to get that law
through. We have to recognize, just as we're
a world economy, where Taiwan buys 37
percet of its manufacturing goods from
China, we are in a society where the
majority of young people want to chase the
bright lights and the glitter. Many of them,
once they have done that and get married
and are wanting to settle down, want to
come back home where's there's
opportunities to raise their kids with the
same freedom and lifestyle they had.
Q: Is that happening?
A: That's happening. Does the demographic
shift? No. But it's happening at least so the
demographics aren't shifting the other
direction as much as they once were.
Q: Small towns still are representing a net
loss on that growth.
A: Absolutely.
Q: Of that demographic, the only net
growth are minorities in towns where there
are opportunities.
A: That may be true across the state and I
think it's particularly true when you get into
Eastern Iowa where you've got so much
heavy dependency on manufacturing and on
processing. This democratic side where we
are labor-intensive. When we got to our side
we don't even have that opportunity
necessarily, except that those manufacturing
positions that we have are the people that
have really grown out of their own
existence, the Rosenblooms for example -
born and raised in Sheldon, Iowa. One
started a very effective body shop, doesn't
employ a lot of people, but that's a nice
source for employment.
His brother started one of the largest
manufacturing companies in Western Iowa,
[that now] employs over 300 people and
manufactures cylinders. He manufactures them
for the military and for a number of road
construction companies, etc., and is able
to give jobs that pay $20 to $30 an hour for
people who are skilled enough to run the
computers that run the manufacturing equipment.
That's making it easier for us to maintain some
of those other people at home.
My salaries may seem small in comparison, but
an editor in my operation getting $40,000 a
year has to pay about one third of his housing
as someone who is making $60,000 to $80,000 in
Chicago, and doesn't have to pay all the money
out for beer and all that he does in a Chicago
lifestyle. I'm exaggerating right now, but
there are people who want that, that's what
they want. Jay and I have had this debate
many times, and Jay's on your side. I'm
losing because the numbers keep coming in
his favor. But I still think that the lifestyle
that Northwest Iowa offers is worth every
effort to manipulate and continue. I do
manipulate to make sure the people
understand what we have to offer.
Q: What do you mean manipulate?
A: I think many of the things that I do as a
publisher I do in hopes of making something
happen in Northwest Iowa that makes it a
better life for people who live there.
Whether it's trying to get a Taco John's and a
Kentucky Fried Chicken, to come and locate
at our new bypass so we don't have to drive
all the way over to Orange City or Sioux
Falls to get a Taco Bell. I'm doing some
things along that line right now, and to the
point where I've told the people who are
potentially putting that business in that we
as a company will provide them during the
first year "x" number of inches of free
advertising to make it easier for them to get
established. I want them in Sheldon, Iowa.
I went to dinner about two weeks ago at
Minerva's - a very fine restaurant up in
Okoboji - and the gal that waited on us got
my credit card and said, "How long have
you lived in Omaha?" because my credit
card is issued by the First National Bank of
Omaha, which owns the Sibley State Bank,
so that's why it's their credit card. I said,
"We don't live in Omaha. What makes you
think that?" "Well, your credit card." I said,
"Oh." and I explained all that. I said, "Are
you from Omaha?" "Yeah." I said, "Well,
why are you in Northwest Iowa? What are
you doing up here in Okoboji?" And she
said, "My husband is the point man for
Arby's, and the Arby's corporation wants to
put three Arby's in Northwest Iowa. They've
already opened one up down in Spencer.
This spring they're opening one in Spirit
Lake. They want to put a third one
someplace in Northwest Iowa."
I gave her my card and said, "Have him come and
see me. I'll make sure that the city gives him
the land to put at the bypass we want in Sheldon,
Iowa. That's the best place to go with it." Next
week when I get off this circuit I'm on the last
two weeks, the man who is the director of
economic development and I are going to go
over to Spencer and see him personally. He
hasn't contacted me yet, but I want him to
know that he should come to Sheldon, Iowa.
Those are manipulated things, but they're for
making the better community for my people. --
Section 6:
Q: How do [your] efforts [to better community]
mesh with your concept of objectivity?
A: I don't have to be objective. I'm the
publisher. My editor has to be objective.
Q: But you're partial opinions and motives
are being expressed through the paper. Are
you in the convenient position where the
paper doesn't need to stay completely
objective?
A: No. As a matter of fact, I'm in a worse
position than that because I'm a newspaper
to 27 towns. So, if everything I was doing
was strictly for Sheldon, I'd be in serious
trouble. Now you saw this article Jay wrote
this week about the British invasion, and the
importance of that historically. In next
week's paper, or two week's paper Jay
intends to write one of his columns. The
column's basically going to come out and
say, "Sibley, Iowa, needs to do these things
to amass themselves the benefit of having
this history." And of the things they have to
do is buy a particular building on Main
Street that is historically very accurate and
refine that building to be an Art Center at
the top floor with little booths for artists that
are provided free for the first two years to
build an artists' colony.
On the bottom floor have a museum that has ties
back to all this type of stuff in it. So, we're
trying to tell that community what to do. We
just did some things with Orange City on
economic boost to their city, producing for them
a special book on economic development that they
needed. I have to do it for all the
communities. I can't do it just for Sheldon,
Iowa. So, if I saw the Arby's would work
better in Orange City than it would work in
Sheldon, I can go after the Arby's in Orange
City.
But I am not the editor. I am the publisher.
[Do] you know how the paper got named?
[My wife and I] decided to start a
newspaper. We wanted to start a newspaper.
We had to name the newspaper. I took the
Editor and Publisher yearbook and opened it
up. She was taking a bath and I sat on the
toilet stool, with the cover down, and
starting going through Editor and Publisher,
reading the names of all these different
papers: Chronicle, Index, Reporter. I had
"something-Review." And she said, "That's
it. I like that. We're going to come out on
Sunday, and we're going to be a review of
everything that week. That's the name we
need to use." That's where that paper started
from.
We started it just the two of us with
some guts, and 40 years later, and two sons
and a couple of wives and everything else,
we have maintained ourselves through some
very bad years and some very decent years.
In the process we've been selected as the
best in the nation, 13 years, and best in Iowa
17 years. I've got the privilege of trying to
do some things to make my communities
everything they ought to be, but it's my news
department, and it starts with Jay, and he
won't hesitate. He calls and tells me when
I'm wrong. Sometimes we discuss it. It's not
always, "Yes, Jay. You're right."
Q: Do you encourage your editorial
employees to get involved in the
community, such as being on the school
board, being on city council? Is there a
conflict there?
A: I allow it, but I don't encourage it and
they don't do it. I would not tell them that
they couldn't, but I do think there is a
separation position that would cause a real
grief if they did it. So, no. They don't. --
Section 7:
Q: Do you have any minorities living in you
circulation areas, like a Spanish-speaking
minority?
A: We're getting more and more of a
Spanish minority. As a matter of fact we
attempted to publish a Spanish paper for
about a year, which isn't easy when you
don't speak or write it, and you have to have
everything translated. About the time we
had it really up and even going a little bit,
there was a pullback of those minorities that
left for various reasons, and really
disappeared from the face of the area. We
now print two Spanish papers. We don't
publish them, they're a printing customer of
ours - one in Sioux City and one in Omaha.
We try to respond to the minorities to the
best of our ability.
Q: Do you cover their events?
A: Oh, yes. We had a wonderful Cinco de
Mayo story on the front page with a full-
color picture of the celebration that took
place two years ago. We had a story this past
year. We try very much, not only to cover
the event, but the issues. We don't have a lot
more minorities than that. We have a black
couple in Sheldon and a black couple in
Sibley and that's all. He's the coach, or
sometimes coach of the football team. A
nice guy, but we just don't have a lot of
minorities. Ship some up, it'd be great to
have them. --
Section 8:
Q: If I want to take out a full-page ad in
your paper, and I want to do it six times a
year, how much would it cost me?
A: $997 a time.
Q: Could you do a full-page color ad?
A: That's what that is. I would sell you
the color; I wouldn't sell you the black and
white. If you have something important
enough to do it six times a year you want it
colored. We will not allow color on the front
page of the paper unless we have color on
the back page. I defy you to find any section
that doesn't have a full page of color
advertising on the back. That's because my
sales people are afraid to sell color to
support that front page.
Q: Do people ever complain about too
much advertising, and not enough news?
A: No, people never complain about advertising
at all. What I find interesting is, if you've
noticed, if you look at the paper close enough
to notice one strange thing about the way we
block our advertising. What it comes down
to is, traditional newspaper philosophy says
when you do your advertising you do it, so
that all the ads are touched by a story. By
doing that, you break up the page, so when
the news department is going to work with
the page they have no place to really play
the story up.
Fifteen or 20 years ago we declared all of our
ads would go on the bottom, and the top half
of the page would be given to the news
department to have a place to really do
something effective with their story. So that
means that, rather than having a little
one-by-three up here right next to a story
where it's going to be seen, that one-by-three
might be up here. We've never had a complaint.
If the ads are good and the ads are effective
it doesn't matter what page you put it - the ads
will still be seen. And, still, it gives us a
better product, and a better piece for our
advertisers as well as our readers. --
Section 9:
Q: Let me ask you another question [about]
this page right here, your front page. This is
your prime real estate, this is the most
important piece of the paper. How is your
paper covering Iraq? You say you go to
defend our freedom. I know you're the
publisher, not the editor, who says that?
That's a quote, so we don't know who is
saying that. Is there a sense that you, as a
newspaper publisher, must support, and rally
support, for American involvement in Iraq?
It's a pretty patriotic, above-the-fold
page.
A: I would guess that there is some place
where that quote is repeated and given who
shared it with us. That quote is the feeling of
Northwest Iowa. I'm just echoing Northwest
Iowa in there, or the newstaff is echoing
Northwest Iowa. We know people who are
involved in that. As a matter of fact, you
should know one of those men were killed
just two days later down here down in Des
Moines. But, you know, some members of
that group that had gone whose wives or
mothers or friends of ours personally were
very very frightened about or worried about
their kids going, but who say, "This is what
has to be done, you know? This is what has
to be done."
Q: And that's your opinion too?
A: Yeah, read my editorial, in my column
in this week's paper, I think that's basically
my opinion. I really do believe that.
Q: This is a key issue editorially, whether
you lead or you follow a community.
A: In this case I think we're following the
community.
Q: It's an interesting issue, I think, because
as I said during the break to Jay, through
your innovation you really have become the
800-lb. gorilla of community news, of
weeklies in the state of Iowa, perhaps in the
United States. You have an ability to lead
people also.
A: We have over 300 newspapers across
America that subscribe to the Review.
Q: People read you for guidance. If you
were to take a stand against an issue, then
you would lead other people perhaps to
follow you. But on this issue you were
following?
A: If I'm going to take that stand, I'll take
it on the inside back page, which is editorial,
and I put my signature on it. In my heart - not
having Jeff Grant here to say, "Did you?" -
I would expect that the story was published
the way it was published because it was
reflective of the opinion of the people who
were there at thing that night.
