Reverend Gordon W. Graham lecture at the University of Iowa, April 4, 1970

Speaker 1: The broadcasting service of The University of Iowa, in cooperation with the Department of English and the Afro-American Studies Program at the University. Presents a series of programs on Afro-American culture. These programs are presented as background material for the course Afro-American Literature. Today's program is a lecture by the Reverend Gordon W. Graham, an advisor to the late Dr. Martin Luther King and an official of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. This lecture was recorded April 7th, 1970 at The University of Iowa. Here is the Reverend Gordon W. Graham. Reverend Gordon...: It is a magnificent experience to see students take time out of, what I am sure, are busy schedules and come here this evening to make a witness. I need not remind you that these are difficult days in which we live. Problems of the world today are gigantic and extent, and chaotic in detail. The challenge which faces us today, more than ever before, and in colleges and universities across the country is to take a stand for justice and for peace. From a scientific and technological point of view, there can be no gainsaying of the fact that our nation has brought the whole world to an all inspiring threshold of the future. We have built machines that think and instruments that peer into [infathomable] regions of interstellar space. We have built gargantuan bridges to span the seas, gigantic buildings to kiss the sky. Through our space ships we have penetrated oceanic depth and through our airplanes we have brought distance in place, time and change. Reverend Gordon...: This is really a dazzling picture of America technological and scientific progress. But in spite of this, something basic is missing and I just want to say a few words about that this evening, in spite of all of our scientific and technological progress, we suffer from a kind of poverty of the spirit that stands in glaring contrast to all of our material abundance. This is the dilemma facing our nation. This is the dilemma to which we as students and concerned citizens and people, must address ourselves. Reverend Gordon...: Each of us live in two realms in life, the within and the without. The within of our lives is that realm of spiritual end expressed in our literature, morals, and religion. Though, it's out of our lives, it's that complex of devices, techniques, and instrumentality by means of which we live. A problem we face today is that we have allowed the within of our lives to become absorbed in the without. Henry David Thoreau said once something that still applies in a very arresting poem he talked about improved means for an unimproved in. This is a tragedy that somewhere along the way of the nation, we have allowed the means by which we live throughout distance to ends with which we live. Consequently, we suffer from a spiritual and moral lag. That must be redeemed if we are going to survive and maintain a moral stance. Nothing convinces me more that we suffer this moral and spiritual lag than our participation as a nation in the war in Vietnam. Reverend Gordon...: Our involvement in this cruel, senseless, unjust war is a tragic expression of the spiritual lag that we suffer as Americans. This is why we must be concerned about the war and its damaging effects that we all know. We all know that the war in Vietnam is stressing the military and industrial complex of this nation. We know that the war in Vietnam is stressing the forces of reaction in our nation. We know that the war in Vietnam has expected the tensions between the continent and between the races, and that that does not help America nor it's so called image to be the most powerful and the richest nation in the world. At war with one of the smallest and poorest nations in the world, which happens to be a nation of color. And this cannot be said enough, that the nation as strong as America, a predominantly white nation like America, at war with the poorest and the smallest nation, that happens to be a Black nation. Reverend Gordon...: This only leads the nation... leads America to a point of losing its own soul if something is not done. But not only that, the war in Vietnam has played Hoover with our domestic destiny. We would think about the fact today that our government spends about $500,000 to kill every Viet Cong soldier. While we spend at the same time, about $53 a year per person, for everybody that is characterized as poverty stricken in the so-called war against poverty. Well, that is not even a good skirmish against poverty and this is why we are moving in the wrong direction, and this war playing Hoover was our domestic destiny. For all of these reasons, we are fighting two Wars today. One is the unjust war in Vietnam, and we are not winning that war there because it is clearly an unwinnable war. Reverend Gordon...: And certainly we are not winning the other war. We are supposed to be fighting, namely the war against poverty. We are not winning that war because we are attempting to win a war 8000 miles away from home because there are all too many people not willing to grapple with the problems of the poor. There are some wars which push the people out to be conscientious objectors and if I had to make the decision, I would make everybody here in this room who was eligible for the war an objector. There are other wars in which we can not be objectors and all too many people are trying to be objectors in the war against poverty. Everybody ought to be involved in that war. Not only has the war played Hoover was our domestic destiny, but it has played Hoover with the destiny of the world and somehow, somewhere we must come to see this. Reverend Gordon...: Dr. Abernathy said some time ago when the press jumped on him about it, but I just want to say it again this evening, I am very sad to say it. We live in a nation that is the greatest provider of violence in the world today. Any nation that spends almost 80 billion of its national budget for... Of its annual budget for defense channelled through the Pentagon and handing out a penance here and there for social uplift is moving towards his own spiritual doom. Reverend Gordon...: I said over and over again, that something must be changed. And we are played Hoover with the destiny of the world and we are brought the whole world closer to a nuclear confrontation and some [inaudible] we must make it clear that we are concerned about the survival of the world in the days when Sputniks and Geminis are dashing through outer space, and guided ballistic missiles are causing highways of death in the stratosphere, where no nation can ultimately win a war. Reverend Gordon...: There's no longer a choice between violence and nonviolence and it's either nonviolence or non-existence. The alternative to this armament. The alternative to a great suspension of nuclear tests. The alternative distressing the United Nations and thereby disarming the whole world will be a civilization plunged into alienation and our earthly habitats will be transformed into an inferno. That even the mind of Dante could not envision. Reverend Gordon...: Doing the moon... When they were sending the men to the moon down at the Cape Kennedy, Dr. Abernathy in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference took several thousand people and some [inaudible] and we went down to protest the pennies for the poor and the millions for the moon. And while down in Cape Kennedy, one of the rich millionaires that lived there had a private beach next to the launch site. And as we were there protesting the war, he came over and said, which one of you or Dr. Abernathy and Dr. Abernathy identified himself. And he said, when I was in San Francisco last week, I saw you speaking at one of the universities there. My daughter goes to school in Chicago, and you were there at one of the Black Panther meetings. Only a few days ago. My wife was in Washington, D.C, visiting her sister. And she saw in the newspaper where you had just visited the president of the United States. Reverend Gordon...: Why are you jumping all over this country like a flea? Dr. Abernathy felt bad because he felt that he was a little flea jumping across the country and he was not doing any constructive thing for his people and that he was not carrying out his mission here in America. And so he felt bad and he hung his head. And Dr. Abernathy said that the master tapped him on the shoulder and said, I sent you down here to Cape Kennedy. And I'm the one who's directing you all over this country. Tell this man what you're doing and Dr. Abernathy turned around to him and said, I may be a flea, but I'll be dogged if SCLC don't keep this country scratching. Thank you. Speaker 3: I want you to tell us a little bit about the immediate projects that the Southern Leadership Conference is interested in now? I know, obviously, something of the general purposes. Reverend Gordon...: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Speaker 3: But I was thinking of the specific objectives that you have in mind now. Can you talk a little bit about that? Reverend Gordon...: We have not as yet specified what our spring- Speaker 3: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Reverend Gordon...: ... objectives are and I haven't... We are planning a staff retreat later on this month to define what our objectives will be for this spring, or probably beyond into the summer. We have just finished, as you probably know, a film project on the life of Dr. Martin Luther King, which was for fundraising purposes. And right now our objectives are mainly in the South. And we are, in the political arena, are running a Black governor for the state of Georgia. And we have quite a few of our staff members, across the South, in the desegregation issue. So, right now this is what SCLC is doing as far as on the national level, besides our other program, housing and so forth, that we carry on from year to year and citizenship education and all of these other departments. But we have not, as of yet, defined what our immediate programs will be for the spring and the summer. Reverend Gordon...: Yes? Speaker 3: Is this movie on Dr. King going to be shown again at another time- Reverend Gordon...: When the complete... Oh, I'm sorry. Speaker 3: ... be available for groups to [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: The complete film on Dr. King will never be shown again in its entirety, but it is available to colleges and universities in, I think it's 35 millimeters and another version, and you can purchase it or rent it by writing SCLC in Atlanta, Georgia. And you could get it that way. Speaker 3: Why won't it be in its entirety? Reverend Gordon...: I think Ms... a wish of Mrs. King. I don't know why, but its entirety... It has never been shown in its entirety to the public. The staff, and some other close friends and people across the nation has seen the whole film. But I don't know why she has expressed this wish, but it will not be shown to the public in its entirety. It was shown on March the 24th nationwide. And we had planned for a million people to view this film at one time across the nation. It was pretty successful, 700,000 people went to movies across the country and saw this film. So it was pretty successful film. Reverend Gordon...: Yes? Speaker 4: I understand that the welfare mothers in Mississippi have been having some difficulty and some of them have been arrested. Has the SCLC been involved in any of this? Reverend Gordon...: SCLC holds very close ties with any movements in the South because we are originally started off in the South and the welfare mothers falls under our poverty department. And I believe five of our staff members are in Mississippi working with the welfare mothers. They have been there for quite a while, working with the welfare mothers on their projects, there in Mississippi. So they're right there with them and planning their programs out. They are planning, by the way, they had planned before Dr. King's death, a sit-in on Senator Eastlands land, as you know, Senator Eastland is the Senator from Mississippi. And he gets over a million dollars a year for just having his land sit there and not growing anything on this land while his people in his... In the state that are starving to death. And they had planned before Dr. King's death, a sit-in on his land and just camp in, just thousands of people go and camp in on his land. And they're planning this, I believe for this coming summer to carry out that project that was stopped by the death of Dr. King. Reverend Gordon...: Yes? Speaker 5: Does the SCLC have a policy on cooperating with other groups? Reverend Gordon...: As I see it- Speaker 5: A group- Reverend Gordon...: I'm sorry, go on. Speaker 5: [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: SCLC always have... And as you... If you look through the history of when SCLC first started and up until today, SCLC has always participated and helped other groups any way they can. Just recently we have... We are right now paying the rent for the pastors' office building in Chicago that... After the Panthers was... There was two Panthers in Chicago was killed and Dr. Abernathy went there for the funeral on and so forth. He used SCLC's money to pay for their apartment and for other expenses he could in that particular area. But we had worked with groups all through the South and across the nation and different projects. Somebody else. Reverend Gordon...: Yes? Speaker 6: Do you feel that Dr. King's [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: You mean has SCLC changed- Speaker 6: I'm asking about Dr. King's [inaudible] violent in change described as [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: Well, I think the philosophy that Dr. King had used prior to his death has changed. The people have changed it. It has changed the perspectives of that nonviolent philosophy, because I think Dr. King saw before his death, and we had discussed this extensively, that the nonviolent philosophy that he had established in the fifties could not carry over... The fifties and sixties could not carry over until the seventies and before his death, he was planning on a larger scale to change that philosophy of nonviolence. And since his death, that philosophy has changed itself. I believe. Speaker 6: Would this make change [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: Well, Dr. King did not use nonviolence as a tactic. And I think today it's used more as a tactic rather than as a moral issue that he used it as. I think SCLC and Dr. Abernathy has turned nonviolence rather than a moral issue into a tactical issue. Reverend Gordon...: Did that answer your question? Yes? Speaker 7: Is the SCLC [inaudible] a political thing now? What I mean by that is... It seems like you all have been really working with economic things like the operations [inaudible] It seems like now Reverend Young and so forth are going into politics. Do you think that this [inaudible] and deal with voter registration in Chicago. Do you feel that this is going to help your program [inaudible] actively in politics? Reverend Gordon...: The social revolution, which is... Had its roots in the civil rights movement is based on politics. And in order for SCLC to maintain a place in this revolution, we're going to have to change with the times. We cannot keep our... Like economics was the call of the day, probably during the sixties. But if economics is not the call of the day in the seventies, then SCLC must change right along with the people, because if they are going to maintain their stance on one issue and become rather an institution, they are clogging the revolution or the social movement and they should be moved aside but I think SCLC realizes that they must change right along with the people. Speaker 7: Are you suggesting that there should be a [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: No, I'm not suggesting this, but I'm saying as the people go, SCLC goes. This is what I'm saying. Speaker 8: Well the people will provide for that. Reverend Gordon...: Well see, I just said, SCLC's his basic philosophy, right now, and their basic tactic is nonviolence. And they... That issue will not change because we do believe that nonviolence, right now, is the only way that the people will be able to gain the rights in the social revolution. And as... You know, as the people change like politically or economically or so forth, nonviolently, this is the way SCLC believes that they will move. Speaker 8: [inaudible] Dr. King. The white mass media is that sometimes [inaudible] Where do you think [inaudible] will end up? Reverend Gordon...: Well, being Frank, Dr. King was made the Black leader by the mass media. I think my personally, and a lot of other Black leaders across the country think that there should be no Black leader of the Black people in this country. And I think the mass media is trying to designate at this time, Reverend Jackson over Dr. Abernathy and causing the dissension in the SCLC and when Dr. King was coming along and the mass media had made him the Black leader and he turned on the mass media and went to his own way. I think they see in Reverend Jackson another Dr. King, because he's sort of the man of the time. The young, dynamic key, the way he dresses and so forth, you know, appeals to the people that you know are in the movement. But I personally don't think that there should be a Black leader for the masses of Black people. Speaker 8: I see [inaudible] Governor Kirk's [inaudible] regards to the situation, my question is, [inaudible] do you see social progress do you see as a [inaudible] from this confrontation? Reverend Gordon...: With Governor Kirk? Speaker 8: [inaudible] maybe I should explain this a little bit. [inaudible] One area where the supreme court has really fallen flat on its face and I just want to know what your comment was on that. [inaudible] authority [inaudible] decisions. Reverend Gordon...: I think governor Kirks' actions will wind up just like governor Wallace when he stood in the door of the University of Alabama. He will make his position known and carry it out to the letter until it comes to a confrontation. And then he will back down. You see governor Kirk is not going to jail or anything like this is ridiculous. Just like Wallace stood in the door of the University of Alabama. He... I don't believe that governor Kirk will take this into a confrontation. Speaker 9: [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: Mostly in Chicago, even though Reverend Jackson is the national director of the economic... Of the Operation Breadbasket. Which is the economic arm of SCLC. He does deal in quite a bit of politics and other problems in Chicago. And I imagine that his department in Chicago had defined some objectives for this summer. And I wouldn't care to elaborate on something that he probably is trying to do... Is defining himself in Chicago. And I have no ideas what his plans are for the spring into summer. Speaker 9: [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: Yes, right. Speaker 9: [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: But- Speaker 9: [inaudible]. Speaker 10: Dr. Graham, do you see a new vision for the church? The role in the church has played [inaudible] in the face of change? Reverend Gordon...: My personal opinion, as far as the churches are concerned in this country, is that they should take all of their financial holdings and give them to the poor people where they belong. The Catholic churches, the Protestant, all the churches, all that money that they have, they should just give it away to the poor. And that is their role right now. I see that as their immediate end for the churches in this country. This should be their job about giving away that money that they have. Speaker 5: Can you see a different role from the Black church than the white church? Reverend Gordon...: No, I don't because the Black church has exploited the Black people, just like the white churches in this country. And I see no difference... These Baptist churches in America got some money. Don't you think they don't. And they have exploited just like the white churches, the Black people in this country. So I think that their role is also to give away some of that money that they have. They have quite a bit too. Speaker 7: I just want to go back to the question that a person asked earlier. When you were saying that SCLC [inaudible] You were saying that you were running [inaudible] SCLC leaders running for office in Georgia [inaudible] find out, maybe you can get more action in that way because that's really the way that people are going. But I'm wondering, economically, [inaudible] SCLC. Is it really going to be worthwhile putting money into campaigning when the contest is virtually lost from the beginning? [inaudible] in Georgia. Or would it be worthwhile to put [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: I don't think that... Hosea Williams is the Director of the Political Education and Voter Registration for SCLC, and then sitting down and talking with Reverend Williams and listening to his program and the logistics that he has worked out for attorney King's campaign and also of the victories that SCLC has taken part in, in the political arena there in the South. They don't see it. And as Hosea Williams explained to me, they don't see it as hopeless from the beginning. And then attorney King's particular campaign, the funds that are being used for his campaign are not coming from SCLC. Most of the money that's coming for his campaign is coming from the people themselves. They're running him for governor. We had a convention in Macon where 5000 people, representing every County in Georgia, met them and they nominated attorney King to run for governor. And I don't think they think it is virtually useless from the beginning and the money that they're using. It's not coming from SCLC because up until the time of March, the 24th SCLC didn't have any money to invest in anybody. And, you know, we were not running attorney King's campaign. Speaker 7: I'm not speaking just financially. I mean, [inaudible] SCLC staff and [inaudible] I mean it in the sense of the disruptions that are taking place in Georgia schools and Alabama schools and so forth. [inaudible] some part of the schools program. Reverend Gordon...: Well, the political... We do have a political education department and we do have a voter registration.d All those folks that died and all their effort that had been put into registering these people to vote, would be virtually useless if we don't utilize this by running Black candidates for office. And we have scored victories in the South with Black people running for political office in Greene County, Alabama. The complete County is controlled by Black people and the Muslims who have land in Alabama. And they had had trouble with the white people in that state has moved all of their holdings and so forth to Greene County where it is Black control. You know- Speaker 7: I understand that problem. What I am saying [inaudible] SCLC has most of it's [inaudible] through local elections. Maybe... Do you think maybe it would be better if they cast their terms that way [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: You mean concentrate more of a local level? Speaker 7: Local level where you can pretty much you know like bring [inaudible] or something like that [inaudible] it's just a matter of going there and directing [inaudible] go to the polls. Reverend Gordon...: Well, I think that... We should, we have worked on the local level for quite a while, and I think that Reverend Williams feels that as we go along, we should aspire to higher positions in the political arena and his philosophy on politics and so forth. He sets his... He defines his own department. And if he decides that, well, we're going to try and run a Black Senator for Alabama, and this is what he decides. And he gets the people support to run a Black Senator. Then after people supporting this man and it's going through, regardless of whether it's useless or not. And I think C.B. King has the majority of support of the Black people in the state of Georgia for that political office. And it is, I think it is, possible for him to be governor. Speaker 4: [inaudible] aware of the fact that SCLC [inaudible] politically registering voters. So, I wanted to know what it was going to do economically feeding the people, given the fact that [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: SCLC cannot feed the people per se. I mean, we not trying to cop out of the question or anything but we are not a red cross organization. We do not have the funds to just go in and find somebody hungry and feed them. But SCLC do have programs in the state of Mississippi that are working towards an economical end and they have set up cooperatives throughout the state of Mississippi and through the South, they have set up their own Black, sort of like the economic bread basket in Chicago, they own Black businesses. The hiring of Black people on massive scales in the city, throughout Mississippi and all of these... If this is how SCLC works now, as far as, just going in there and just taking everything we have and say, you know, here, we don't have that kind of money to build this, we are aware that there are people starving in Mississippi and we are working on this problem. Speaker 9: [inaudible]. Reverend Gordon...: I can't hear you. Speaker 9: Are you feeling a lot of pressure from [inaudible] government to concentrate more on the economic level instead of [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: No, we're not receiving pressure in this area, but the money... The government and so forth has a lot of money that can be utilized in the economic area. And I think that SCLC is trying to get this money and designate it out to its prospective places. And if... Jesse Jackson is heading the bread basket department on a national level and he is dealing extensively with the government and private industry in trying to get this money back, you know, coming back into the Black community. Speaker 9: [inaudible] I think he means that you are receiving some type of pressure from above or you know sort of [inaudible] Reverend Gordon...: If there is a pressure being exerted on SCLC to lay off the political thing and concentrate on the economic, but I'm not aware of it. I don't think it is, but I'm saying, you know, that possibility always, you know, it is that possibility. And if it is, I'm not aware of it and that it is a pressure being exerted, you know, in this area. Yes? Speaker 5: You've talked about politics and you've talked about economics and I was wondering what the SCLC was doing about education in the sense of actively being actively engaged in the educational process. For example, you say you have cooperatives. You have obviously trained people to conduct cooperatives. So, whether or not you wish to be in it, you are in the educational business already. So, I would like to know how much, what other things you do like that? Reverend Gordon...: Dorothy Cotton is the Director of Citizenship Education Program. And through her workshops, and through her work in the South, the cooperatives sprung out of her department. This is where they come from. And this is our education department. The citizenship education department originally started as teaching Black people to read and write in the South. So they would be qualified to vote. And from that, it has sprung into cooperatives and so forth like this. And this is our education department with Miss Cotton. Reverend Gordon...: Jim, there's no more questions from the audience. We could... Speaker 5: Thanks a lot. Speaker 1: You have been listening to a lecture by the Reverend Gordon W. Graham. An advisor to the late Dr. Martin Luther King and official of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. Recorded at The University of Iowa on April 7th, 1970. This series of programs on Afro-American culture is presented by the broadcasting service of The University of Iowa in cooperation with the department of English and the Afro-American Studies Program at the University as background material for the course Afro-American Literature. This has been a recorded presentation of the broadcasting service of The University of Iowa.